Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums General Common Interests Creationism vs Evolution

I believe in both. I think there is a God who created things and allowed them to evolve. I think during the "7 days" (which couldn't be seven actual days because a day is based on the revolution of the Earth around the sun, neither of which were created until after the second day or so - so 7 days is most likely a way of explanation for a complicated process of creation and evolution) man evolved and at some point given souls. That's my theory.

Evolutionism- If man evolved from chimps and apes then why do we still have chimps and apes.

Creationism- If god created everything then who created god?

I'm so torn.

pangea is a creationist idea. they have been using it for a few hundred years I believe. Good to see the evolutionists listen every now and again.

I have been avoiding this thread for...well...182 posts. I believe that creationism and evolution are not mutually exclusive and that what we see today was a combination of both. I'm not sure why this is being discussed as one vs the other.

blitzkrieg so I guess I have been singeled out to provide a list of five arguements for the evolutionists theory. I was not ignoring you just didn't know it was directed at me. Well I will provide a list but it is going to have to be later as I just got to work. I would also like to see a list of five arguements from your point. I will be posting mine in 4-6 hours maybe earlier depends on how work goes.

Argument #1
According to cpurser noah only had to take one pair of each type of animal, besides clean animals of which he took 7 pairs. Well I would like to know how in 4400 years did we end up with hundreds of different breeds of dogs,cats, etc..
That applies to just about any type of animal. After all if there was a EVOLUTIONARY event on that scale with that many different species just popping into existence why did it stop we should within the last 200 years have been able to see these mutations still happening. I mean if you got a dog the size of a wolf how many generations do you think it's going to take to get a chihuahua sp?. Wouldn't we as creationist so like to point out have a fossil record of such great change of species over a relatively short period of time? Oh and why didn't noah have to take insects are they not land dwelling air breathing animals? If he didn't how did we get thousands of different types of insect from the realtively few (read none) that would have survived the global flood. So people on the creationist side say they do not believe in evolution yet what would have had to had happened was in fact evolution, even if it was on a completely absurd scale. I can't believe that all these different species came about without millions of years of gradual change. Will have more later, I'm still not awake. Edit: One thing I forgot. How many people were on the ark? And did noah just drop them off all over or what? Oh yeah he wouldn't be able to becuase it was a barge which means that they were stuck in one place when the water went down. Oh yeah where did all the water go? That much water didn't evaporate and it for sure didn't freeze up that quick.

ASSVT.. you may want to have a look at a scientific study done on the biblical dimensions given for the ark....
The rather indepth technical work is entitled
Noah's ark, a feasability study.

It deals with questions such as which kindso f animals were on the ark, floor space allotment air exchange, waste managment, heating, ventilation, and illumination. It also deals with living conditions, preservation of foodstuffs for the duration of the trip.. feeding challenges (animals with special diets) etc...The list goes on. The ark was a VERY large boat... Conservative measurements peg the internal size at the cubic footage of 500+ standard sized american railroad box cars. (under time pressure, and couldn't find the exact number.. I beleive its 552)
That is a lot of animals.. and remember that (it was already posted here once) not every single animals today needed on the ark. not a sheppard, and a husky, and a great dane etc... only one pair of the dog KIND... taxonomy is not my specialty, i haven't studied there yet, but I recommend the book for further questions... also, to dispell the myth before it even gets mentioned here, REALLY large boats have been built in the past by many different civilizations..
ark... 450 feet long
75 feet wide,
45 feet wide... Fairly large

leontifera
Naval battle ship in the Aegean sea in 280 BC
"This one had eight tiers of oars per side...in her were a hundred oars per tier, so that on each side there were eight hundred rowers.. For a total of 1600 rowers... on the upper deck or hatches there were 1200 fighting men under two special commanders... authority philostephanus.. 3rd C. BC(larry pierce, page 2, large war ships of antiquity. (report for creation mag))

another ship 130 meters long
18 wide, and 22 high.. four steering oars...
40 tiers or oars.. double bow, double stern carried seven rams.. it was manned by 400 sailors to handle the riggings, 4000 rowers and 2850 men in arms for a total over 7250....
It was almost to large to be of practical usage as a war vessle. Inventor Ptolemy Philopator, surname Tryphon.. Authority Philostephanus.. (ibid)

Taxed2death: Nice research those were some big boats. Well anyways I have posted first argument of the five that blitzkrieg asked for. I have more unanswered questions.

Assvt.. you are confusing genetics with evolution. Are you suggesting that dog breeders are hurrying along evolution.. they have nothing to do with evolution.. the dna structure of original dog kind is from a single doglike KIND... current dogs, and wolves and coyotes are simply offspring of this kind... read about this science called genetics from Mendehlson or other greats...This will explain it for you. sorry gotta run.. This board is a lot of fun though. have a great day folks!

ASSVT:

I don't think you were being targeted for providing the 5 arguments. I think it was to anyone who wanted to take the challenge.

Argument #1:

Once again, Creationists agree with micro-evolution, or the changes within a species. Also, humans have been breeding cats, dogs, horses, etc. for many, many, years. Your example of a chihuahua represents selective breeding by humans to bring about desired results within a species.

As for insects: I don't have a definite answer for you. But I would say, as with any flood, you will have floating debris. If Noah didn't carry some species of insects on the ark, I can imagine that most species could have survived while floating on debris. Have you ever seen a colony of ants that has been caught in a rainstorm? They clump together and float. (Actually, it is pretty cool to watch.)

Where did the water go?

This question assumes that the pre-flood world was like the world is today. The Bible states clearly that the water was 15 cubits over the tallest mountain. Sea-shell fossils have been found on top of mountain ranges all over the world. The top of Mt. Everest is covered with petrified, closed clams. They had to be buried alive to be petrified in the closed position. The Bible says in Psalm 104 that as the flood ended the mountains lifted up and the valleys sank down and the water hasted away. Today's mountain ranges are well above sea level, but this was not the case before the flood. If the earth were smoothed out today, that is, the mountains pressed down and the ocean basins lifted up, there is enough water in the oceans right now to cover the entire earth 8,000 feet deep (approximately 1.5 miles).
All of the water ran off rapidly through the soft sediments into the ocean basins during the last few months of the flood. This would explain the rapid carving of features such as the Grand Canyon and the Bad Lands.

Did Noah drop off/pick up all the animals?

This question assumes that the world before the flood was like the world is today with animals specialized for certain areas. Today the world is 70% water and the oceans separate the continents. Also, some animals only live in a few selected locations. The Bible teaches that before the flood the water was gathered into one place (Genesis 1:9). There was probably one ocean and much more landmass. Also, if the climate was more temperate animals could live in all types of places which means Noah did not have to go gather animals from all over the world. In fact, the Bible says that the animals came to Noah (Genesis 6:20).