Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums General Common Interests Creationism vs Evolution

A few quick answers to posts from the beggining...
Satan in incapable of planting physical things.. that is a cop out answer. starting with a noahic flood, and looking at the fossil record, you expect to find the rapid burial of billions of dead thing, buried in rock layers, laid down by water, all over the earth! This is what you find. Fossils have never been buried slow any gradually whether it be in the desert, or ocean bottom, or mountain tops. scavengers go to work quickly, and decomposition does the rest!

Shawn... there are only two ways we got here. Created, or evolved... you can muse about aliens, or other ways, but it boils down to either they evolved or were created. only two possible options... I would challenge you to make a list of reasons why you beleive in evolution... start with maybe five.. then starting at the first point, do some indepth research.. for example, with regards to old age, don't pick up a book that tells you fossils are all old, rather pick up a book, and learn about how dating methods work. Then you can see, as you get through your list whether or not evolution, or creation, if there are still reasons for your beleif. If not, then we can through out our ideas, and re-educate..

Bold statement saying "genesis is full of contradictions". When we make statements like this we perpetuate myths. Please, ifyou think there is a contradictions, allow someone to give you a reasonable explanation. Again, not all answers will seem to fit your ideas, but with an open field for discussion, the things learned should atleast not contradict one another!

Apologies for spelling and grammar. Just finished a graveyard shift

Joshua...
if we can stretch our minds to say "why could God not have created using evolution" then why bother discussing anything here. The God of the bible does not use a sloppy evolution approach. The bible tells us that God spoke, and things came into being. The whole salvation account.. Christ dying on the cross for our sins, has its roots in genesis. If God never created a REAL ADAM AND EVE, then there was no one to bring sin into the world. After creating, God said "It was good".. that does not encompass millions of years of evolution, and death, before ADAM, to lead up to Adam.. Otherwise the created world would not be good, but rather a playground for death. It was through Adams sin, that death< a temporary enemy> entered the world. Christ took our sin, and guilt upon himself at the Cross, and died there. God raised him from the dead, and because he took our sins, we have forgivness from them. If you argue that evolution happened, then you destroy the christian message. This is why christians need to stand up and stop the sillyness, that is proseletyzing evolution. Scientific laws state,
Energy can not be created or destroyed
Entropy is happening
Spontanious generation is impossible.
These laws, proved over and over and over and over again, should be the measuring stick for the evolutionary theory.

Lab after lab will tell you this, yet some people have a great faith in evolution and say if given enough time, we can contradict even the firmest of scientific laws.
I would like one question answered properly. EdwardC, I do not need statistics, because they just show that the masses are uneducated, and heavily indoctrinated by puesdo-science evolution...
Question. What mechanism exists to spur evolution forward. What onward and upward maachine.
Please no hasty responses. Your answers will be checked for scientific veracity.

Mutation takes existing dna, and alters it, causing a "NET LOSS" of genetic information. There are examples of short term benefits, but always at a great loss to the organism. Sickle cell enemia as a great example. People with this condition are less prone to get maleria, because of the reduced efficiency of their blood cells in carrying oxygen. Now this is a small benefit to those few people in maleria prone areas, but only until they have to work hard for their food, or participate in sports or other activities that require lots of oxygen in the blood. They have a small survival advantage pertaining to maleria, but in all other areas, they are less likely to survive because they can't get the oxygen to their bodies as quickly as the rest of us.

I find it interesting that my Catholic school education considered everything up to the age of Abraham to be mythogical, as a primitive society's lore for how the world began, a flood story, and a few other stories. Abraham was the "founding father" of the JudeoChristian tradition, and history flows from there.

cpurser, I'm sorry that I don't remember the sources for my information. I take the information, remember it, and throw out the wrapper. However, unless you have been extremely isolationist in your study of the history of life on this planet, you have already seen it.

A theory doesn't have to stand up to the standards of a criminal court. It's more like a civil court, and the strong preponderance of the evidence still supports evolution. Maybe it needs some tweaking, but the basic theory is sound and well supported. You've already seen the evidence, and I don't remember the sources, but I've seen enough to be comfortable with my conclusions.

I do like your plays on semantics on the Biblical translations. However, it is still clear that there are two creation myths that are contradictory, even in your readings of them. Your two translations say the exact same thing, the NIV is just in simpler prose.

So if no one made God then how did He get here? Poof I'm here, now what? Who does He worship? Who does He think He is, God?
How did the filling get inside the twinkie?
I am a monkey?

And I'm still waiting on proof that I didn't create everything couple of hours ago.

sorry daenku32 I dont think anyone is gonna answer, because it is just so absurd!

daeknu - the fact I can remember back over 20 years ago, and the fact that recorded eyewitness human history has existed for thousands of years is proof that you didn't create the earth a couple of hours ago.

Let's keep this limited within the bounds of reason, please!

No one took a shot at my earlier question???
Oh well, here's another;

If you entertained the thought of a "god" creating
"everything" from scratch, out of "nothing". Think about the tremendous amount of complexity in the design of just the "living" creations. The details tended to in bodily functions alone is mind-boggling. It seems as though examples of truely masterful planning and thought processes are evident everywhere. Yet, one of your "creations" develops a "glitch". Sin. So, as master, creator, of all that there is, anywhere, you decide that no personal visits to all men at once are necessary to quell the problem. No, you won't "stop the world", and everything in it for the VERY short time [with all the TREMENDOUS power at your command] it would take to "remind" EVERYONE of their "roots", and the proper way to indeed...live. And after 4000 years or so of sin, "build up", if you will, you decide the best plan is to make a virgin pregnant with your son so that he may die for their sins? Why would something like that be required if you are the "creator"? Why would it even work? Your sacrifice??? Why do YOU have to sacrfice? [your son] You're GOD!! It just seems like such a haphazard way of getting your point across after all you've acomplished before.

I feel like going on here, but you most likely see what I mean by now. I'm REALLY NOT trying to offend any body here. I don't think you are crazy, or stupid if you believe. I'm just throwing
out a thought on the subject that troubles me. Why would something SOOO all powerful be reduced to using a "flawed" creation, [man kind here] to comunicate with the other flawed creations over the centuries [man kind again] to get his message out???

As some others have stated, the evidence is there pick up any anthropology text or any book on species and you'll find plenty of reference material to go look up. I did, I'm not going through the excercise again for you.. I'm satisfied with the answers I've found. And the anecdotal evidence you've provided is in itself highly questionable and not nearly enough to overcome the evidence I know that does exist.

I disagree here, what I was pointing out was the first step of what occurs in evolutionary theory. Not the total theory just the first step, which you say is adaptation.. ummm isn't that what evolution is all about??? Just over a much longer time period.

I not so worried about the theory of creationism winning out in the end. And if it does prove to be true, I'll be one of the first on the bandwagon. The evidence however points in a very different direction. And for now, I put my belief in evolution (with doubts as I said before.. it is a theory.. not a fact)

What bothers me is the preponderance of psuedo-science that exists and how modern media sensationalizes things that are just bad science. And to continue on with that, how so many people understand nothing about cause and effect/action reaction. Basic fundamental physical science. The way people can look at an issue and be swayed by the gloss words that evoke emotional reactions rather than stepping back and honestly looking at an issue. Regardless of what the issue is. That's what really bothers me about the fact that people are putting so much effort into creationism and other psuedo-sciences.

how about this.. "studies have shown that ________ has an amazing effect on __________ to help reduce unwanted ____________ at an amazing rate."

fill in the blanks as you see fit. I find that people will buy things like that to the tune of billions of dollars a year. Stop and think.. what studies??? performed by whom??? what credentials do they have??? What makes them an expert on this???

Do you know what a triple-blind study is??? Do you know why they are performed??

The biggest problem with evolution is that it has a fatal flaw. And this is taught in Logic 101, small sample. Given the relative time frame we are dealing with, and the amount of evidence, we really don't have enough to prove anything, we only have bits and pieces. Hence, it's a THEORY... However, it is the closest theory that fits the facts as we now percieve them to be. As science advances the theory will be tested and retested, and further refined until we get to a point that it becomes a fact. Ugh.. I can't believe I'm explaining this..