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Originally posted by T-red2000se:
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Can it?? This "discussion" will never end. I am forever done on this subject. I believe stuff like this should not be allowed on this board. www.contour.org should not be used to discuss relgious beliefs. I don't a damn what you believe, so don't tell me. Keep it off the board!!
Agreed....Neco has this rule....I think it is a great one, too!
why do people who are tired of such posts always read and reply to them....tons of those posts to read on here... :rolleyes:


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Well, you ask for Biblical contradictions... There are many of them. The very first book has one. King James Version

Which came first... Man or beast

Beast?

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

or Man?

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

...There are many, many more. I just found this one on the first couple pages.


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TheMark:

I have a feeling this "contradiction" is caused by the translation from Hebrew. Let me research this:

from http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/1272.asp

On the surface, this seems to say that the land beasts and birds were created between Adam and Eve. However, Jewish scholars apparently did not recognize any such conflict with the account in chapter 1, where Adam and Eve were both created after the beasts and birds (Genesis 1:23–25). Why is this? Because in Hebrew the precise tense of a verb is determined by the context. It is clear from chapter 1 that the beasts and birds were created before Adam, so Jewish scholars would have understood the verb "formed' in Genesis 2:19 to mean "had formed' or "having formed'. If we translate verse 19 as follows (as one widely used translation* does), "Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field …', the apparent disagreement with Genesis 1 disappears completely.

Here is what I found in the New King James Version:

Genesis 2:18-19 : New King James Version (NKJV)

Genesis 2
18And the LORD God said, "It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him." 19Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name.

This is what I found in the New International Version:

Genesis 2:18-19 : New International Version

Genesis 2
18 The Lord God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."
19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.

This is why, when you come across something in the Bible that doesn't make sense, take a look at another translation, and read commentaries on the passage. Because, rest assured, you are not the first person to question the Bible.


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Has anyone ever considered that maybe God used evolution to create life. The bible doesn't tell us how God created the world and universe, but at the same time we can't trust science to prove or disprove Christianity. Christianity is based on faith, and therefore science or anything else human based is not going to prove or disprove this. I believe that no matter whether evolution happened or didn't, God chose when and how the world was created.


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Can someone explain to me why when anyone stumbles
across, "the oldest human remains yet found". To
my knowlege they are always still bones. The latest still having mummified skin in fact. Yet scores of different varieties of dino remains are unearthed and every last one I'm aware of is so old that its structure has BECOME STONE. Dating inacuracies or not, how long would you guess it must take for that to happen?


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Interesting article. Your reply does open another can of worms regarding different versions, though. I will sidestep that for the time being.

Another one, a little farther on in the same book.

? How many animals get to buck the high seas with Noah?

(King James Version)

GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

This one looks like a typo to me, actually. *shrugs*


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PLEASE.. NO MORE.. frown


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Listen up...I am only going to post this message. The battle has persisted since the publication of Darwin's Origin of Species in 1859. Along the way, the battle field has migrated from the Ivory Towers of late 19th century English universities to a small courtroom in Dayton, Tennessee (sight of the 1925 Scopes Monkey Trial). From movie theaters throughout the USA which presented the Scopes Monkey Trial story in the film Inherit The Wind in 1960 to contemporary Kansas and Ohio state school boards. The battle has raged.

Let us step back for a moment to examine the facts. In America of 2002, many Americans still espouse the biblical literalism as the basis of all "scientific" pursuits - there is no denying this. However, as in any war...the outcome of hostilities are not determined by shouting matches between opposing civilians...which this debate boils down to. The battle is won in the trenches. Where are the trenches? The high schools and universities which are educating the next generation of Americans.

Let's look at some numbers for enrolled students:

US private school (elementary and secondary) enrollment: ~6 million students (~11% of total US students)*

US Public school (elementary and secondary) enrollment: ~55 million students (~86% of total US students)*

Home Schooled (elementary and secondary) enrollment: ~ 1.5 million (~2.5%)*

Of these private schools, the ~70%* are Catholic and do not espouse the biblical literalism that serves as a breeding ground for the instruction of pseudoscience in the form of creationism. In fact, the science and math instruction in many Catholic secondary schools and universities is excellent in terms of scope and rigor. Of those students being home schooled, ~53%* are subjected to an "incomplete" science education lacking in a comprehensive treatment of the biological sciences.

The bulk of US Public schools incorporate the theory of evolution into their science curricula while excluding the pseudoscience of creationism. Of those that have decided to allow equal treatment for the pseudoscience of creationism (Kansas and Ohio), Kansas has already restored the theory of evolution as the basis for their treatment of the biological sciences after a 7-3 decision by the ( Kansas state school board ).

The implication is that ~3 million students out of a total of ~62 million are being exposed to only the pseudoscience of creationism and not the theory of evolution. With the current increase in secularism in the US, the number of students not receiving proper instruction will likely diminish as the biblical literalism of the evangelical and protestant denominations no longer hold sway with a better educated public.

In a nutshell, the theory of evolution has already won the war in this context. What is left is a mopping-up operation akin the final stages of Operation Anaconda. There may be some fanatical fundamentalist holdouts that still pose a threat to certain weak-minded midwestern school boards but the days of Anti-evolution legistlation such as the Butler Act are long gone.

Does this mean that all reasonable persons should let their guard down when it comes to the education of their children now that the pseudoscience of creationism poses little threat to the integrity of science curricula? Of course not! If anything, our vigilance needs to increase - complacency yields indifference and indifference will ultimately yield regret.

As far as addressing specific points concerning perceived shortcomings in the theory of evolution or in other fields of scientific inquiry - I will not. By doing so, I elevate the pseudoscience of creation to a position that it does not deserve. Nothing satisfies creationists more than having their claims considered by legitimate scientists - it gives them the impression that their flawed scientific methodology can stand on equal footing with real science. It cannot and never will because "creation science" cannot and never will be real science.

I once had a harsh physics professor as an undergraduate at the University of Maryland. He was exceedingly tough in terms of grading. He gave no credit for mathematical derivations which began with a single erroneous expression even though the rest of the derivation followed all of the necessary steps that would have yielded the correct answer otherwise. He called it "the rat in the pickle barrel" i.e. even though the pickles one obtains from a barrel may look good to eat, normal people would throw out the entire barrel of pickles if a dead rat was discovered inside.

Thus it is with "creation science". You begin with an assumption which cannot be supported explicitly i.e. the Judeo-Christian god created the cosmos and all life there in and this being occasionally interferes with human affairs. This is the rat and the pickle barrel of "creation science" must be thown out.

-Edward Colón, Ph.D.
Computational Physics, Inc./Naval Research Lab

*National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) 1999 survey


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I am gonna hazard a guess here, sacrifice was in practice at the time so maybe this would have something to do with taking seven of the clean. If someone can confirm this for me please do so.


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hmmm for a group that is supposedly not a threat the evolutionists certainly get worked up over them. I wonder why that is? If these people are not real scientists, they cannot provide adequate reasons for what they believe or provide proper reasoning against evolution origin (which is supposedly well documented by science) then what are you worried about???


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