Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums General Autocross and Open Track G-Stock or STS that is the Question

After running my '00 contour svt in several events, and doing pretty well, I am in a quandry as to which class to enter in next year. I ran in Novice STS twice and took second and First respectively, and I ran in G stock once and took first.

I have not done any modifications to the car to date. but plan a cat back system (legal in both classes) and I would like to add some of the ST200 rims and struts and spring, with the adjustable spring perches.

I have always been one for having stiff competition, which GS in the dallas area definately has. But STS allows me to do some of the cool stuff that I want to do to my car like springs and struts. But, on the other hand GS lets me run race tires.

If anyone has the information as to what is allowed in each class, that would help me out, also any recommendations would be appreciated.

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David Mimlitch
davidm@hpnc.com

'00 'Tour SVT T-Red
'99 F250 SuperDuty Powerstroke Diesel 15.1 second 1/4 mile time

If you have ITRs in GS stock then i would stay away. The springs u plan on getting would also make it illegal to run in GS. If i were you i would run in STS. U can have a lot more mods legally and u dont have to worry about cars with gear LSDs (ITR)....Plus if u want to run on race tires then there is a STR class for that (Street Touring - Race compound tire)


My $0.02,

Matt



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2000 Silver Frost Clearcoat Metallic Contour SVT #????
2000 Phoenix Yellow ITR #484
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Hey David its Vern
Check out this web site: http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/
it is the 2001 SCCA rules and car breakdown
for 2001 . Well in a nutshell you can run race tires, you can change shocks,"STOCK" springs stock airbox modified filter any exaust from cat back and front swaybar. I know some guys in Stock class run shortened shocks,performance breakpads. In our area G stock is very fast.
Jon Wagner in the orange Camaro,Mark Cameron in a eagle talon and Chris Fleming in a Subaru Inprez are very quick also With SCCA
you have the National Tour in April and Divisional in July which will bring cars in from a three state radius. The new rules makes the class look good and fair. G Stock is a larger and more popular class in this area. STS Class Still I don't know. This is our 3rd year and has not taken off here. I am hoping for a change next year. I am stuck since I have the SE. I can't ever mount SVT parts and not bump class! So I am in either STS or Street Mod with the hot Mustangs and Camaros. I still plan to bring the SE's suspension upto SVT specs. And run 16" wheels/tires. So have no answer. One more thing to think of is in SCCA they score 6 out of 9 races and ER scores 6 out of 10 races
so you can run G stock and STS for 3-4 races before you have to are "locked" into a class
for season points!
Hey Try the field see what you like!
Vern

Also dont run away from the ITR, even if you go to sts they end up over ther as well. Either way sounds like your doing a fine job!

I agree that the ITRs are to be feared, but aren't they going to be in a different stock class for 2001? Seems like the last time I saw a breakdown of eligible cars they were in the next group up from the SVT.

IMHO, a full on STS SVT would be a great autoxer. A set of shocks would go a long way to making it a better GS car, but I don't see shocks and a front bar keeping the inside front tire planted firmly enough on corner exit to put the power down. What the car really needs is a LSD...but that's a diiferent class altogether.

I have run STS her in Louisville because it's a slower class and a larger class. I am just not too competitive with our resident ITR and a very fast Probe GT. In STS there are slower stock cars with a few mods. This usually puts me 2nd or 3rd out of about six or seven. I get to fight with a couple guys without feeling like a complete loser!

Vern and others

Thanks for all the info

It looks like the Integra Type R has been moved to D-stock. But the Integra GS-R remains in G stock. What is the difference betweent the two car.

I am very tempted to go STS since I can do all the fun mods that I want to do. Although adjustable struts are allowed in stock class.

My logic is that competition makes you better. The more competition, the more you strive to beet them. There is also more people that are close to you in skill level that you can use as goal to beat. My goal is to get better, and I am afraid that STS in Dallas just doesn't seem to be taking off. Vern, We need to convince more of the Dallas group to go AutoXing. If there was an STS class dominated by Contours, I would be glad to join in!

I have raced sailboat for many years now. Competing in many national events and placing very well in many of them. In all the years, I barely remember the races where I beat the competition by a huge margin, but the races where we were battling it out for poistion, a close race all the way down to the finish, those are the races I enjoy the most, and remember the most. For me it is not about winning (although that is a lot of fun) it's about the competition. The stiffer the competition there is, the happier I am, even if I don't finish first!


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David Mimlitch
davidm@hpnc.com

'00 'Tour SVT T-Red
'99 F250 SuperDuty Powerstroke Diesel 15.1 second 1/4 mile time

Well,

The Integra GS-R is a quick car. I would say it handles on par with your SVT you have 30 more horses and alot more torque. The GS-R is around 3-400 lbs lighter thus more nimble. In other words a good run in the hands of a good driver. But the differences from the GS-R and the type are like the SE compaired to the SVT and more because they did alot of redesign of the unibody to stiffen it up and the limited slip!

What were you thinking about short of springs that would take you out of G-Stock? Not Alot of stuff you can put on a SVT to make it "THAT MUCH FASTER" if you really get to the meat of it. You already have the fussy stuff I am going to buy! You can run the Koni's ,Race tires on 16" wheels your airbox is already trick, you can't ouch from the t-body back and from the cat back if you can ugrade? I think about what guys are doing to their cars would only hurt your torque , you have a fair airbox you can do any exaust mods from cat back and the only thing I can thing I can think about is the a set of lowering springs! Which does make a difference. As usual not sure it is a coin flip.

next year is STS we will have a trick 92 civic si with an Integra GS-R engine (Keith from the pits) a couple of VW GTI's from novice that we already kill. A 99 Impreza who gets me by 2 seconds on a 60 second course (should take him next year after mods) a couple of brothers in a 90 BERRETA I can take them now.

The only thing is if the Neon, ACR guy's drop from DS because of the GS type R ?
and any "SMALL TURBO" cars that may show up?
We have two months! The debate goes on and NO RECOUNTS!

Vern

Hey Just wanted to make clear I am not trying to talk you out of STS. It is like the old saying goes the grass is always greener on other side. I have the SE and trying to make it a SVT and you have the SVT and not sure what to do with it! You have a GREAT CAR and it will be a top runner in either class. STS is not as mature as G-Stock. G-stock has a larger pool of drivers.
who compete in divisional and national events giving you a good gage on your efforts. I would rather run in G-Stock and eat Camaro's all day long. To make my car competitive would bump me from class. So I do not have a choice on class. You do have a competitive car stock and you showed it two Sundays ago when you beat Andrew in the F-Stock Camaro. He runs good against FS cars now and these FS cars ran upper pack at nationals! So you are in good shape as you are. Again size up what you want to do to
with the car and see what cars are fielded next year. Hey talk is cheap! I'll yack shop with you all day! It is a good debate!

Vern

[This message has been edited by Vkilburn (edited November 21, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Vkilburn (edited November 21, 2000).]

Vern

Read the rules on the site the you gave me in this post. Is the contour SVT a different car than the Contour or is the SVT a trim level? It seems to me there were some words in the rules that would allow you to run SVT components on your car. I read through most of the rules last night and I think I saw verbage that might give you that ability

The main things that I wanted to do the the car (air filter, cat back, koni's, springs and adjustable perchs) are allowed in GS except the springs and perchs. The more I think about it, I am going to do all the mods that GS allows and start racing STS to get more seat time. Then when I recover from the financial hit of the mods, I'll buy race tires and try my hand GS. I really wanted to lower the car and put on the adjustable spring perchs and seeing Tim Kirk's black SVT at the Dallas CEG meeting, just made me want it SO much more. I guess, all in good time.


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David Mimlitch
davidm@hpnc.com

'00 'Tour SVT T-Red
'99 F250 SuperDuty Powerstroke Diesel 15.1 second 1/4 mile time

Hey David sorry for delay in response had my
internet access router go down today! So it backup now I can go something important!

Hey Tim's SVT is pretty Nice!
I was told By Keith the Novice Chief with SCCA that I would have to install the TOTAL SVT PACKAGE since you can't order individual SVT components through the dealer and installed on SE model as a factory option.
You buy the SE or the SVT Contour. The SVT
version is not technically a Performance kit for the SE it is a different Model of the same car?
I know I don't get it either! So I run STS next season!
Also thought of another option for you and next year. Both groups SCCA and ER run a Street Tire Class. The entry list is as large as Novice class 15 cars per event.
The guys in this class are quick.
The only two questions are:
1) at a National tour or a divisional
run you will need to convert to G-Stock or
STS class.
2) Not sure if STS can run in street tire?
Street touring street tire? in Street tire class??? sort of an mess in classification? I guess we can ask?
I don't want to run in street touring with only 2 -3 cars. But We can also start STS class and be the base! If you thing you can beat a Contour come on in!

Not sure how much of a money hole we both are going to dig this winter but you have
3-4 races before you need to commit to a class for season points just keep that in mind during your planning .

Vern

Hey Dave...

I've autocrossed a 99 SE Sport in GS for the past season and a half... this past season on race rubber (Kumhos).

I'd recommend starting with GS. It gives you a good taste of the car and how it works on race rubber... which is a bit different than even the decent SVT street tires. It will give you a lot of valuable experience.

Now, the Type Rs, Eclipses, etc, will be nearly impossible to beat. But you can get mighty close if you drive well... and if you drive well and they don't... you just might have an upset. :-)

The main problem with the Contour in any stock form is the lack of adjustable front camber... with all that V-6 hanging out in front of the axle, it really needs the camber that *cannot* be adjusted. I frequently ran against a Corrado (V-6) that could legally get almost -3 degrees of camber into the front of his car... made it darn near impossible to beat him, but I did on the rare occasion.

But if you can learn to make the most of the car and worry people from time-to-time, then you'll be doing well, and gaining great experience.

And, the bonus is then you'll know what you want to change in terms of how you'd like to tweak the handling. Then you can make your STS changes in the car, and know full well what you want to accomplish by making the changes. All the seat time you gained in GS will help you pin-point that stuff.

Good luck, and let me know if you have any more questions.

--Dave

PS -- The Stock rules proposal that was referred to in this thread will *not* take place until 2002... So we're still in GS with all the usual suspects. And, for what it's worth, even though the regular V-6 SE is *not* listed with the SVT in the proposal, it *is* grouped with it regardless. Someone from the national office cleared that up recently.