Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Brakes Baer Brakes

That's all good that they "should" be an improvement over stock. What evidence do you have of this? The only brake upgrade I have heard of that many people do is on the BMW M3 (E36) to Porsche calipers and rotors. This is a much beefier unit which cool so well, man M3 owners had to block their stock brake cooling vents because the pads would never get to full operating temperature on the racetrack! Now those R brakes, folks.

I was simply stating that I would like more evidence of the Baer's being a major improvement over stock SVT brakes before I plunked down that kind of money. I guess you guys have the requisite $900-$1200 to pay for new Baer brakes as if its chump change. PLUS, if you really want to speak as if you know what you're talking about here, you need to tack on an average of $2000 for the 17" wheels and tires that you will need to clear these calipers. Sheesh.

I know Dave Z tracks his car significantly so he knows what he's talking about. But anyone else here who does not flog their SVT on the racetrack shouldn't be giving the advice of "well, they're Baer's and they cost alot of money, so they must be good...". I would put my stock brakes with ATE Super Blu fluid, Powerstop rotors or stock rotors, and the track pads I run (Carbotech Panther compound) against the Baer's any day. I would predict they would come very close to the Baer's in stopping ability up until they fade.

AND, with adequate cooling to the fronts to reduce said fade, I would bet they are 90% of the Baer's or more. The average driver is NEVER going to know the difference on the race track, and the average driver is not going to take his car off of the street onto a track.

If you don't believe me on any of this, go to Grassroots Motorsports webpage and read this article on improving brake performance. New pads with adequate cooling can be light years ahead of stock brakes without needing to spend all the money on a whole new setup.
http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com/brakes.html

My 2 cents, and thanks for reading this far.





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Adam Wilson
Chicago CEG member
http://www.automotiveinfopage.com

Adam,

Since I do not have the Baer Brake kit it is impossible for me to comment on performance. That was the original intent of this thread.

As far as pricing goes, compared to the KVR quote I got for a brake kit (4 piston caliper) the Baer Brake (2 piston caliper) at half the cost seemed a reasonable choice for street use with some track time thrown in. The KVR kit also required larger wheels due to the rotor diameter being larger than stock.

I upgraded my pads a while back to get better braking when hot, but at the expense of cold braking performance. Even with this set-up, on the track I still encounter brake fade on a couple of corners.

My hopes were that the larger diameter rotor would produce less heat during breaking and thus be less prone to fade.

For pure stopping distance, my stock brakes perform fine until they fade. This usually is a couple of stops from 60 mph. Once the ABS is activated during braking, your not going to stop any quicker no matter what brakes you have. Stopping distance is a combination of tire grip, weight transfer, and suspension in addition to the brakes themselves. Porches stop so well not only because of their brakes, but the fact that they have more weight on the rear wheels which allows them to participate more in stopping the car.

Again, the point of upgrading brakes is not to stop over a shorter distance, but to have better brake feel, and overcome fade and other braking deterioration resulting from heavy use.

There is no doult that improved cooling and different pads will improve performance as well.

I'm looking for hard facts as well, unfortunately there doesn't appear to be many people out there that have Baer Brakes installed. As such, I'm willing to be a guinea pig and put my hard earned dollars on the line to find out. Someone has to be the first or second and take a chance.

Stay tuned, once I get them I'll let the forum know the hard facts.

How about this... I have the Powerstops front and rear, cross-drilled, with stainless steel lines. They work great, the pedal feels better, I can control the amount of stop better, but I don't take my car to the track. The Powerstops that I received state in the instructions that the rotors are NOT designed for track use. I haven't warped these, unlike my stock units. The guy that installed the Baer's has been on the track, and plans to go again. The Baer rotors he ordered are slotted, and are vented (they all come vented, but are not of a two-piece design). He paid about 825, I paid less than 500 and some change for my set-up. I'm happy with mine, he's totally stoked with his. But, if I had the money, I'd have Baer's also. It's not a waste of money if it's not YOUR money.

Adam,
Where is all this anger coming from? why do you despite baer brakes so much?
Because its a bad ass set up? or cause you have them? I've taken my car to a couple of open track events with the stock setup,,,,and i know theres a little left to be desired from them.

You wanna say you'll listen to someone that knows what they are talking about? "David Z"

He just told that PowerStops warp easy!!
and Dion said even the directions say NO!
track use.

Baer upgrades to a 1 piece vented 13 inch rotor with 2 piston caliper and steel lines

I'll tell you since i have the baer setup that they feel WAY FIRMER,,and alot more braking power than any stock size set up.

and dont cry cause you cant afford nicer wheels to house the Massive rotors.

AND.....to say that """""I would put my stock brakes with ATE super blu fluid,power stop rotors"""" WHICH WARP AND CAN'T BE USED ON THE TRACK!!!!!! """""or stock rotors,and the track pads I run (Carbotech Panther compond) against the Baer's any day."""""

That is the biggest line of BS i've ever heard,,,thats like going into a gun fight with a knife.

So as soon as i get some real numbers ,,you'll be the first to know!!

so dont hate the player,,,hate the game


joey 99SVT
13inch Baers,,,and almost everything else

Thanks for your input Joey and Dion.

Joey, does the Baer setup reduce the amount of fade that the stock SVT brakes suffer from?

Also is it possible to that the stock front brakes and install them in place of the rear brakes without running into a major retrofit?

Thanks Again Guys!!!!

you guys are obviously missing the easy solution here! when your brakes start to fade on you, just supplement them with the e-brake.

Ok guys be nice....

The Baer kit has all the right stuff to be a very well performing kit, 13" rotors, aluminum dual piston (is the caliper static?), and braided lines. But... if you don't really get them up to tempeature, what good does it really make? ...besides looking pretty... then there is the one piece rotor, I'm not sure what material they made this from, but if its not some exotic material I imagine this is much heavier than the stock stuff, and un sprung weight + rotational mass is not good. Since it will not fit MOST 16" rims, thats more weight and mass, unless you add an expesive set of lightweight rims and tires... on the good side, larger rotor equals more swept area for so there more stuff to grab to slow you down, plus more cooling area... two pistons equals more clamping power, the aluminum housing has a fast heat transfer (I can't remember the scientific term which compares to water), and there is the wide variety of pad compounds. Little things like the braided lines help in more heat distrubution, less tubular expasion (which equals reponsive break pedals) and are really robust... A good set of pads, cryogenically treated plain ol rotors, braided lines and hi temp brake fluid will do for me... But if you have the money, then for all the good reason get yourself the kit! I don't see it as a waste of money, just as not needed unless put to good use... just my .02


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David Z.
Silver E1 #4808 w/stuff
http://daplace.spedia.net

Alright, I feel I need to respond to this f'ing jackoff.



huh? Despite baer brakes so much? I have no idea what you're trying to say here.



Hmmm...a bad ass setup. I can tell that you really give good, resourceful feedback. That's great that you track your car. I'm proud of you. BUT, did you ever once try to run some track only pads with your stock setup? If you had, maybe you could speak more intelligently about the differences between the Baer's and a tweaked stock setup. And before anyone says "but then you're not comparing a stock setup to Baer's stock setup" that's true, but my point is that without spending the large amount of money on the Baer's PLUS the aftermarket wheels (which has anyone found any that are lightweight and actually fit our car? I think not) you can get your stock setup to perform much better, possibly to 90% of what the Baer's could do for less money.



Fine, good. I received a super deal on the rotors from Michael Amisano who is selling his SVT. $260 with shipping for all four rotors. If they warp on the track, I'll live with it. But I also said "powerstop/stock rotors" meaning that the stock rotors were an option, and one that I had tested the last time I was at Gingerman with my Carbotech pads.



That's great!! You say they feel firmer and I value your feedback on them. How much better would you say though? Assuming $2K wheels to fit around them and the $800+ for the brakes plus labor (or did you do them yourself?), is their braking power THAT much better than stock with track pads? Oh, I forgot, you didn't mention whether you had ever tried switching pads with your stock setup.

And a 2 piston setup for the money you paid? My gf's Explorer has 2 pistons up front for crying out loud. I'm simply stating that as long as you're spending all this money to get better braking why go with something that is not that much beefier than stock? For my money, I'd rather go to a 4 or 6 piston setup (if one exists).



Don't cry? What a mature response. Obviously you are still working at Blockbuster Video and living with Mommy and Daddy. That must be how you're financing your car mods. I on the other hand am closing on a house tomorrow here in the Chicago area, which ain't cheap. (I used the word "ain't" to try to come down to your vocabulary level for a second). In my opinion, you don't need to demonstrate wealth by purchasing car mods that are useless and/or not necessary.



Why is it BS? Oh I forgot, you exhaustively tried to get more performance out of your stock brakes before going to the Baer's.



We'll be anxiously awaiting your findings.



Don't hate the player, hate the game. O.K. Ice Cube, I'll back my muthaf'ing ass up I guess before you bust a cap in ma ass. shi' fool.

Oh, and your signature. "and almost everything". I guess that means you've also got a supertouring wing, stupid-ass vinyl stickers, and 20 inch wheels.

I think I've sufficiently flamed you here. I look forward to your illiterate response.




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Adam Wilson
Chicago CEG member
http://www.automotiveinfopage.com

Adam,

Before writing my response, I talked to a friend that goes to a local shop here in So Cal. and found out a little about you.

Now i'm no longer angry, infact I pitty you.
And as far as your personal comments go.
You wanna get personal? Bring that Sh!t ON!

I'll buy you a plane ticket back to Cali so I can whoop your A$$ !!!!!!!

I'm just fed up with this topic,and you
So you wanna go ahead and responed to this again? Go for it,,,but I no longer feel the need to waste anymore thought about something that is POINTLESS for you to understand.....


Joey Sinz
99 SVT WWW.SCRACING.NET

Hey people enough of the shit talking, be nice or you will feel the rath of the god like powers of the moderators...

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David Z.
Silver E1 #4808 w/stuff
http://daplace.spedia.net

[This message has been edited by david z (edited July 27, 2000).]