Well...even though there are some bad MTX grinders with more potential power, I am never disappointed in my 'tour. I also have lotsa ATX Subarus, Pontiacs, and real lame riceboy rides (meaning stock Acuras with small rims and big tailpipes) on my daily commute trying to race me every day. It always amazes me that my el-cheapo, relatively problem-free, untweaked bigazz sedan can still keep up (or much better) if only because I KNOW HOW TO DRIVE A 5SP. In the right car, it all comes down to the driver....even a better car can choke when driven wrong. ATX's are just built wrong, 'nuff said, and 5-6sp's rarely have decent drivers, sadly....the 'tour is a fine ride in the right hands. For the $9k or so mine is prob worth now, yes, I still prefer to keep it just to thumb my nose at more expensive rides with clueless drivers. BTW I love the various graphix pkgs and non-perf add-ons Pontiac drivers seem addicted to. No better way to make a totally overstated ride even more ugly......