Originally posted by BP:
Originally posted by EternalOne:
....the fact remains that had Clinton got off his ass when those of us in the military told him to, we would not be sitting in this mess today.



this is the statement that my original post was in response to. you could substitute at least two other presidents in place of clinton's name and that statement would be accurate. but that wasn't the statement you made. with you having the exposure you had, even if it was only under the clinton admin, you should know better than to place blame.



Well, I didn't work directly under any other President, so I cannot confirm this, but to my recollection I do not remember a single other President in American history that dealt with terrorist attacks on US interests and personel, and then was given the full story along with a full assessment report showing who was responsible and where they were at that very moment. I can, however, confirm that this was the case with President Clinton -- which is what I was speaking to. If you can provide other examples, I am more than willing to listen, but in all of my training an example like this was never mentioned. Our basic training taught us that if we provide solid information, then the CiC would act, the more solid the info, the faster the action was likely to be taken. Everyone up the chain of command was telling him what to do, but the political climate and economic stability at the time prevented him from taking action. (That's my thoughts at the time, at least.)

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and the impatience of the american public in regards to the wot is because of what's happened over the past 3+ years. the plan and strategy wasn't well defined and look at where we are now. NONE of our goals have been accomplished.



This is also the first time in history that an administration has been told they had to lay out the entire war plan to the general public. Granted, I can see where there have been failures as well, but overall I believe there was no other way. Seriously, what great "war plan" has anyone else laid out? There has only really been one "plan" proposed, and that is pull out. Very few people say we should send more troops (which I disagree with help, but that's a whole other discussion) -- most just say we should get the hell out, and I believe even you agree that is a bad idea at this point. (I think I recall that from a previous conversation, if not I am sorry.)

To say that none of our goals have been accomplished is rather harsh, as well. That's really gotta make a soldier proud there. Seriously, when my brother-in-law got back last year we sat down and discussed his mission goals. Of his goals 100% were met, and under the proposed timeline. Do you also not realize that 90% of the country now has electricity, when before during Saddam they did not. Granted, its hard to keep it operational 100% of the time, but even 10 hrs of power is more than never, and goes a long way towards improving life for the people. What about the $6 BILLION we've spent in reconstruction efforts? The schools we've built, the infrastructure we're upgraded, etc. How about the fact that the majority of the North and South of Iraq is under their gov't control, and the majority of the problems lay within Sadr City, or originate there into the rest of the city? There are problems, yes, and there will be for years and years, but to say we've done nothing is very closeminded, and surely does not give our troops enough credit.

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i can pretty much guarantee you that no presidential candidate in the next election will continue the path that the current admin started and still adheres to.



Yeah, but that's politics driving that -- most politicians will say whatever they have to so they get elected, we all know this. I still would like to hear what they plan on doing differently -- it's obvious that people will distance themselves from the current admin, that's just "smart politics" given todays climate, doesn't mean they have better ideas, or any ideas for that matter.

I'd also bet that the dems don't make the Kerry mistake of not saying anything except "We aren't Bush", as well. All of the reading, researching, etc I did during the last election still never got me a solid answer on what the hell that guy wanted to do... Somehow I'm afraid this will happen again. I'd just be happy if they'd all come out and lay out a mission plan, for Iraq, the War on Terror, the ecnonomy, trade relations, everything. I think that should become a prereq for people running for office, it'd definately make our choices as citizens a little easier...

E1

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