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Originally posted by muntus: Originally posted by Pete D: Welcome to the United States of Fascism?
So we defend against Islamo-fascism and we're the ones who are the fascists?
If by defending ourselves you mean destroying the liberties of Americans without seeing any tangible benefit, then yes.
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Originally posted by muntus:
They create terror through death. Terror without death is not their goal. If indeed terror, even without death, was their ultimate goal(which it isn't), they would all study computer programming, acquire jobs in every sector they could, and unleash an electronic assault in order to shut down communications, banking, internet, and power grids. That would inflict more terror than blowing up planes.
So why the samll scale terror(blowing up planes instead of shutting down the continent)? Their ultimate goal is to kill the infidels. Terror is a nice by-product.
I can't think of too many things that strikes fear in the heart of people more than death. Whether the death actually happens (like in 9/11) or is "foiled" (like in the recent plan) the terror still ensues. If they wanted nothing else than to kill as many Americans as possible they wouldn't be popping planes out of the sky. Despite what many people imply the leaders of these organizations are NOT stupid.
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Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown By Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent THE Government is discussing with airport operators plans to introduce a screening system that allows security staff to focus on those passengers who pose the greatest risk.
The passenger-profiling technique involves selecting people who are behaving suspiciously, have an unusual travel pattern or, most controversially, have a certain ethnic or religious background.
The system would be much more sophisticated than simply picking out young men of Asian appearance. But it would cause outrage in the Muslim community because its members would be far more likely to be selected for extra checks.
Officials at the Department for Transport (DfT) have discussed the practicalities of introducing such a system with airport operators, including BAA. They believe that it would be more effective at identifying potential terrorists than the existing random searches.
They also say that it would greatly reduce queues at secur-ity gates, which caused lengthy delays at London airports yesterday for the fifth day running. Heathrow and Gatwick were worst affected, cancelling 69 and 27 flights respectively. BAA gave warning yesterday that the disruption would continue for the rest of the week.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
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So to summarize Sigmaâ??s and my own posts, I suggested profiling as a way to put a dent in terrorism. Sigmaâ??s immediate reply was to attack. Quote:
Sigma, Jesus Christ, put the profiling thing to rest. It's stupid.
Then when that method didnâ??t work but for one or two people, he resorted to sarcasm. Quote:
Sigma, I guess "we" only implies Christian-Americans.
When he knew EXACTLY what I meant by the statement. And then more sarcasm instead of ideas.
Quote:
Sigma, Because, you know, there are millions of Muslim-Americans in this country too that would have their lives altered in some way using your great idea. So I guess the terrorist would still "have won".
And when that didnâ??t work we started name calling.
Quote:
Sigma, I thought you were just ignorant which I could blame you for but apparently you're just a [censored] moron, and that's not your fault, it's just the way God made you. Let me know when you want to actually have an intelligent discussion presuming that's something that you're at least capable of doing. I long for something outside of your poorly-composed "anyone that disagrees with me must be a Liberal" responses.
Secondly, You must be more stupid than I thought. Does your reading comprehension suffer when sentences extended beyond 10 words? Would it help if I broke my admittedly long-winded posts into chapters so you have time for a juice break? I'd actually create a bulleted list of what my "better ideas" (IMHO) were, but at this point I'm not sure you would actually read and understand it nor do I think I could draw enough pretty pictures to help you out.
Then we change our previous statement but add something to make it look not quite as hypocritical as it should.
Quote:
Sigma, Like I said, profiling works when you know what you're looking for.
Which is it? "Jesus Christ, put the profiling thing to rest its stupid", or "Like I said, profiling works when you know what you're looking for" . Can you answer that without sarcasm, calling me or anyone else stupid, and not try to sound so arrogant about your perceived â??superior intelligence and powers of observationâ??
Thank you,
Jim T.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats".--H.L. Mencken
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Originally posted by jthursby: Quote:
Sigma, Jesus Christ, put the profiling thing to rest. It's stupid.
Then when that method didnâ??t work but for one or two people, he resorted to sarcasm. Quote:
Sigma, I guess "we" only implies Christian-Americans.
When he knew EXACTLY what I meant by the statement. And then more sarcasm instead of ideas.
Quote:
Sigma, Because, you know, there are millions of Muslim-Americans in this country too that would have their lives altered in some way using your great idea. So I guess the terrorist would still "have won".
Um, that wasn't sarcasm.
Your "idea" was that we should yank out all Muslims as part of your "profiling" so that "we", as Americans, would not "have our lives altered in any way" by having to go through extra security.
That statement totally ignores the fact that you would be "altering the lives" of millions of Muslim-Americans with your "idea".
Hence my question if by "we", in the "we should not have our lives altered" referred to just Christian-Americans (though I suppose "non-Muslim-Americans" would have been a better description).
If your line of logic is that "if we alter an American's life the terrorists have won" then simply be executing your plan the terrorists have "won" because there's always going to be some innocent American who will be slightly inconvenienced by any change in security protocols.
Originally posted by jthursby: Then we change our previous statement but add something to make it look not quite as hypocritical as it should.
Quote:
Sigma, Like I said, profiling works when you know what you're looking for.
Which is it? "Jesus Christ, put the profiling thing to rest its stupid", or "Like I said, profiling works when you know what you're looking for"
The whole cut-and-paste out-of-context thing. The first quote was made in regards to the type of profiling suggested here. The "if we just look at every Muslim we're bound to catch them all" mentality. The second quote is in reference to the type of profiling that actually does something; as said in the quote -- profiling when you know what you're looking for.
I didn't change anything. I said that profiling works when you know what you're looking for WAY early in my posts. Hence the "Like I said" in the post that you quoted, that was referring to an earlier post.
Have you not yet figured out the difference between the type of profiling suggested in this thread by the likes of you and the type of profiling that actually gets things done? I don't know how else to make it any clearer for you. You seem to be the only one that doesn't get it.
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Originally posted by sigma: Originally posted by jthursby: Quote:
Sigma, Jesus Christ, put the profiling thing to rest. It's stupid.
Then when that method didnâ??t work but for one or two people, he resorted to sarcasm. Quote:
Sigma, I guess "we" only implies Christian-Americans.
When he knew EXACTLY what I meant by the statement. And then more sarcasm instead of ideas.
Quote:
Sigma, Because, you know, there are millions of Muslim-Americans in this country too that would have their lives altered in some way using your great idea. So I guess the terrorist would still "have won".
Um, that wasn't sarcasm.
Your "idea" was that we should yank out all Muslims as part of your "profiling" so that "we", as Americans, would not "have our lives altered in any way" by having to go through extra security.
That statement totally ignores the fact that you would be "altering the lives" of millions of Muslim-Americans with your "idea".
Hence my question if by "we", in the "we should not have our lives altered" referred to just Christian-Americans (though I suppose "non-Muslim-Americans" would have been a better description).
If your line of logic is that "if we alter an American's life the terrorists have won" then simply be executing your plan the terrorists have "won" because there's always going to be some innocent American who will be slightly inconvenienced by any change in security protocols.
Originally posted by jthursby: Then we change our previous statement but add something to make it look not quite as hypocritical as it should.
Quote:
Sigma, Like I said, profiling works when you know what you're looking for.
Which is it? "Jesus Christ, put the profiling thing to rest its stupid", or "Like I said, profiling works when you know what you're looking for"
The whole cut-and-paste out-of-context thing. The first quote was made in regards to the type of profiling suggested here. The "if we just look at every Muslim we're bound to catch them all" mentality. The second quote is in reference to the type of profiling that actually does something; as said in the quote -- profiling when you know what you're looking for.
I didn't change anything. I said that profiling works when you know what you're looking for WAY early in my posts. Hence the "Like I said" in the post that you quoted, that was referring to an earlier post.
Have you not yet figured out the difference between the type of profiling suggested in this thread by the likes of you and the type of profiling that actually gets things done? I don't know how else to make it any clearer for you. You seem to be the only one that doesn't get it.
I get it just fine, I have from the start. We were both talking about profiling in one way shape or form. Your arrogance must block your powers of deduction. One word my friend, Hypocrite. You can twist it any way you want. Make whatever snide comments you like about my ability to read and understand your bombastic literary. We were probably closer in idea than than you thought, had you cared to look. I'm done.
Jim T.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats".--H.L. Mencken
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Quote:
I get it just fine, I have from the start. We were both talking about profiling in one way shape or form. Your arrogance must block your powers of deduction. One word my friend, Hypocrite. You can twist it any way you want. Make whatever snide comments you like about my ability to read and understand your bombastic literary. We were probably closer in idea than than you thought, had you cared to look. I'm done.
Jim T.
"Closer in idea than [I] thought"?
I "cared to look" thanks. Here's your ideas:
Originally posted by jthursby: start strip searching 30ish middle-eastern looking men and women before flights. Restrict their movement anywhere they go.
Your very next post:
Originally posted by jthursby: I said muslim people, not just LOOKING muslim. ALL of them.
(your emphasis, not mine, and actually, as clearly evidenced above you did say "looking")
You were very explicit in your ideas on how to "profile" -- "strip-searching ALL 30-ish middle-eastern LOOKING men and women and ALL muslims" [we'll ignore the fact that almost none of the known terrorists are anywhere near the age of 30 or a woman so your 'profile' sucks; you would literally capture more terrorists by strip-searching all white guys than you would profiling 30-ish muslim men and women]. You were also very insistent that any new security measures not effect anyone outside this profile at all.
That is the only insight that you provided into your opinion on profiling and how it should work. If you think that's even remotely similar in idea to what I'm talking about you're still not getting it because it's damn near the total opposite.
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BrApple-its all in the way it is presented...but everythign on my resume is all me
TexasRealtor-I hope you spelling improves on your resume.
MxRacer-ladies and gentlemen, welcome to ironyville. population, texasrelator.
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I hope you guys can try and keep this civil. Pretty much, this has been a good debate and should stay that way.
Chris
NJ
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The frozen assets list from CNN on the arrested terrorists from the UK. Well, I donâ??t see a single â??Englishâ? sounding name in the bunch. Now my last name is easy to find its origin. Thursby. Itâ??s English and easy to figure out. Where you were born or live now has nothing to do with your ethnic background. So you were born English but changed youâ??re name to one of a Middle Eastern origin? (Cat Stevens) Red flag time. On the watch list. Itâ??s simple, no matter who says it isnâ??t. Jim T.
â?¢ ALI, Abdula, Ahmed DOB: Oct. 10, 1980 Address: Walthamstow, London, United Kingdom â?¢ ALI, Cossor DOB: December 4, 1982 Address: London, United Kingdom, E17 â?¢ ALI, Shazad, Khuram DOB: June 11, 1979 Address: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, United Kingdom â?¢ HUSSAIN, Nabeel DOB: March 10, 1984 Address: London, United Kingdom, E4 â?¢ HUSSAIN, Tanvir DOB: Feb. 21, 1981 Address: Leyton, London, United Kingdom, E10 â?¢ HUSSAIN, Umair DOB: Oct. 9, 1981 Address: London, United Kingdom, E14 â?¢ ISLAM, Umar DOB: April 23, 1978 Address: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, United Kingdom â?¢ KAYANI, Waseem DOB: April 28, 1977 Address: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, United Kingdom â?¢ KHAN, Assan, Abdullah DOB: Oct. 24, 1984 Address: London, United Kingdom, E17 â?¢ KHAN, Waheed, Arafat DOB: May 18, 1981 Address: London, United Kingdom, E17 â?¢ KHATIB, Osman, Adam DOB: Dec. 7, 1986 Address: London, United Kingdom, E17 â?¢ PATEL, Abdul, Muneem DOB: April 17, 1989 Address: London, United Kingdom, E5 â?¢ RAUF, Tayib DOB: April 26, 1984 Address: Birmingham, United Kingdom â?¢ SADDIQUE, Muhammed, Usman DOB: April 23, 1982 Address: Walthamstow, London, United Kingdom, E17 â?¢ SARWAR, Assad DOB: May 24, 1980 Address: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, United Kingdom â?¢ SAVANT, Ibrahim DOB: Dec. 19, 1980 Address: London, United Kingdom, E17 â?¢ TARIQ, Amin, Asmin DOB: June 7, 1983 Address: Walthamstow, London, United Kingdom, E17 â?¢ UDDIN, Shamin, Mohammed DOB: Nov. 22, 1970 Address: Stoke Newington, London, United Kingdom â?¢ ZAMAN, Waheed DOB: May 27, 1984 Address: London, United Kingdom, E17
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats".--H.L. Mencken
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