Originally posted by sigma:
I didn't say we couldn't use it. I said they took it further than we could get away with in the US. Big difference there.



Can't use it Vs. unable or not permitted to use it. Same result, yes? Bah, that's just quibbling, so I'll skip it.


Originally posted by sigma:
We can't have the CIA interrogating people at the Gate, for example, (why not?) but we could train our TSA agents in psychological profiling and observation techniques rather than them just being Bin Monkeys. There are certainly aspects we can easily do here in the US without worrying about the ACLU throwing a hissy fit. And some of it will require a slight culture change. Better law enforcement cooperation which is still very lacking years after 9/11 would ensure that the crosschecked records are current and thorough. Having trained security personnel to ask specific poignant questions (that aren't always the same) to gauge reaction should be a basic cornerstone of security, but we only do it in the US on International flights and those entering the borders via car. At least US Customs and Border Patrol tries some sort of observational profiling with their very limited resources, but for domestic flights the TSA might as well be deaf, dumb, and blind.

At this point I'd honestly be happy if we could just get our half-assed "security" system and methods down that we've got right now. But what we really need is a mentality shift akin to the one that El-Al had in the 70's. But, frankly, it's all a moot point because, as long as the TSA is running it, nothing is going to get done.... We certainly can't expect them to do something that is significantly more complicated.



That's kinda an insult to the TSA guys, & I don't think they deserve a lot of the harsh criticism being tossed their way. Sure, many of them are bin jockeys right now, but you can bet that is gonna change over time. I'm sure the government has been looking at what works & implimenting the appropriate techniques in key locations across the country. More training is coming, in process, and will intensify with each attempt to execute a terror plot. Heaven forbid there should be a successful attempt, what then for security? No measure will be too drastic. In the meantime, this discussion has put things into a more rational perspective for me, so perhaps my reaction was a bit rash, but the profiling of what we have seen to be the typical terrorist is still a usable tool in the overall effort IMHO. By your own admission (a few posts back) it is being successfully utilized to some degree by El-Al.

You almost touched on another potential problem for our air travel security efforts. Not the TSA as an organization, or the seeming lack of training, but the complexity of the air travel system. How many airports does El-Al have to monitor? How many DOMESTIC flights do they deal with? Now how many airports are in the U.S. that require monitoring?

Once you complete nationwide training of competent people in the major airports, some of the training is obsolete or is due for refreshing & adaptation - It's gonna take a while to get really revved up for this security. The difference in scale is MAMMOTH, and we'll certainly be looking to technology to make that task a bit more tame.

Freedom of movement has become very taken for granted in this country. Interstate flights should be considered the equal to international. After all, are we not a union of independent nation-states of sorts? A complex task is made more complex still because of sheer numbers. Frankly, these years since 9/11 I think GW & the government in general underestimated the scale of the threat. I suspect they thought they would be dealing with a few terror networks, a bunch of terror cells that they could take out or hunt down in a matter of months. The indoctrination, distrust, & hatered seem to be very deeply seeded and more expansive & passionate than I would have imagined. Scary stuff.

It's late, I'm babbling. Sorry. Good chatting with you.

<=== (* off to bed *)


Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.