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Joined: Dec 2004
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Originally posted by sigma:
Man, you keep it up and eventually you'll have us all included in your profiling criteria. And there lies the rub.
Better than including nobody because someone might get offended.
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Ressurected 06/14/06
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Joined: Mar 2003
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Veteran CEG\'er
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US - No hand luggage - end of
UK - Were gonna check all hand luggage, result serious delays and mayhem
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by jthursby:
Your right sigma, we are all wrong, go about it your way.  sounds like typical liberal drivel, no matter what anyone says its wrong. You win we all give up.
Jim T.
Yes, a person that likes profiling but doesn't agree with you that it will do something in this case must be a Liberal. 
I thought you were just ignorant which I could blame you for but apparently you're just a [censored] moron, and that's not your fault, it's just the way God made you. Let me know when you want to actually have an intelligent discussion presuming that's something that you're at least capable of doing. I long for something outside of your poorly-composed "anyone that disagrees with me must be a Liberal" responses.
Originally posted by muntus:
Originally posted by sigma:
Man, you keep it up and eventually you'll have us all included in your profiling criteria. And there lies the rub.
Better than including nobody because someone might get offended.
One more time for those that are slow -- not liking profiling in this case ain't got a damn thing to do about "offending" people. I challenge you to go back and find anywhere in this thread where I mentioned offending someone as a reason not to profile. I will PayPal you $100 right now if you can find one.
I don't give a flying [censored] about "offending" people. I do care about a system that works, not one that gives the illusion of something that works while weakening the overall security because, all else being equal, if you focus more time and energy on one thing you lose focus on everything else. If you know what you're looking for, profiling works fine. Problem is -- we don't.
Let me know when you can figure out how profiling could have stopped any of the 19 9/11 hijackers. Or how it could have stopped Richard Reid. Or stop any of the 23 recently arrested presumed terrorists in Britain. Because the world's leading security experts would love to hear it.
Without the benefit of hindsight none of them would have aroused any undue suspicion.
No one would have thought anything of a guy carrying a boxcutter at the time of 9/11, most of them had relatively clean records, had been here for some time, were not known for their relgious or poltiical activism at all, were well-educated men trained to act perfectly normal under questioning, and at the time were not known to have travelled to terrorist camps. They would have gotten through security no matter what.
No one would have thought to check inside the soles of Richard Reids shoes.
No one would have thought to check the sport drinks that these recent British guys had on them, they were mostly British born, all British-educated, and largely perfectly "normal" people with no major criminal records and no known connection with terrorist organizations. They would have boarded and blown up their planes as planned. The best chance in that case is that perhaps their relative young age might have made them crack if sufficient pressure was applied by interrogation/interviewing a la El-Al. But there's no way we'd apply the kind of pressure that El-Al does to passengers with their Mossad interrogation techniques. It would never fly in the US, neither on a selective scale nor on a total population scale.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
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Thank you Sigma!
No one wants to be inconvenienced by increased security at the airport but in order to be effective the measures have to be applied uniformly across the board. If you don't think the terrorist are smart enough to work around a profile you wrong.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Even Chernoff made the same point on Fox this morning, that terror groups would learn to use attackers outside standard profiles... and that makes him a driveling liberal?
MSDS, SHO-shop Y, custom 2.5" catback; xcal2; 63mm TB, K&N 3530; Koni struts, Aussie bar; THaines forks, Quaife, SpecII, UR fly; DMD; Nima UD pullies; Stazi brakes; f&r Pole120 mounts. Just a daily commuter car. Silver '98 SVT E0 #3159
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I'm not concerned about offending people, but I am concerned with our government discriminating against certain people (more than they already do). I also believe that we need to really study the safety improvements for actions versus the harm they cause to people BEFORE we just implement them knee-jerk.
You must treat everyone equally and interfere with their lives as little as possible. I think banning beverages and making people check basic toiletries is excessive, and nobody really studied the added safety before implementing it.
That is not coming from a liberal point of view, but a libertarian one.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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Wow the last time I checked I thought I was in the United States of America, a country founded on ideals like Freedom and Liberty, guess I was wrong.  Our current system obviously does not work, yet nobody seems to have a problem with cranking up the dial a bit. I would be perfectly happy with a much more lax policy, but then again I'm not the typical American that eats up the spoon fed fear-inducing drivel that the media (on any part of the spectrum) is more than happy to churn out. I suppose that is what the terrorists really want, and that is what they are getting. Remember folks, the main part of Terrorism is Terror. Without that, the whole terrorism thing just doesn't work.
"Bros before Hoes" <-- More men need this mentality.
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Originally posted by deedum:
US - No hand luggage - end of
UK - Were gonna check all hand luggage, result serious delays and mayhem
Don't worry, once everyone stops hyperventilating things will return to normal. "Normal" of course being the world where putting your shoes through the x-ray machine is an effective security measure.
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CEG\'er
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But still no better ideas from you huh sigma? Just attacks and name calling? Figures, who's the ass now? Thats right you. Just attack ideas you don't like while offering NOTHING else. Typical. Jim T. PS its easy to be an ass when you hide under the cloak of a pseudonym. 
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats".--H.L. Mencken
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OXYMORON #65 - Liberal Thinker
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Calling sigma an ass, while you're having your own special little tantrum, seems to make a point different from the one you intended. And do you ever play that pseudonym card on JaTo and TourDeForce?
Are you sure this is where you want this discussion to go?
MSDS, SHO-shop Y, custom 2.5" catback; xcal2; 63mm TB, K&N 3530; Koni struts, Aussie bar; THaines forks, Quaife, SpecII, UR fly; DMD; Nima UD pullies; Stazi brakes; f&r Pole120 mounts. Just a daily commuter car. Silver '98 SVT E0 #3159
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