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I see profiling as ineffective and easily circumvented. The first thing they would do is suddenly recruit people who don't look that way.
Considering the number of terrorists compared to the number of middle eastern males (even if terrorists are truly a subset), you're going to piss off and alienate a lot of innocent people. The difference in probability is not statistically significant.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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Chris, just make sure you have no stop in London. Flights in and out of Heathrow do not allow them. I saw that on a link to a state department page from my company's website.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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what's scary is a few months ago when i flew to KY to buy my cobra, i accidently carried some stuff on the plane. i went through LAX and had to take of my jacket, my shoes, remove my laptop from the bag etc... to put through the scanner. after i put my jacket back on i realized that i had left my mini-leatherman in the pocket and after i got to my final destination in Dayton, OH i went to the restroom to change my shirt and found i had accidently left a sizeable utility knife in my bag, my carry on bag. i was like  cuz the thought of what would have happened had they been discovered raced into my mind. but...went undetected...  perhaps theyre more laxed (no pun intended) on inter-state flights?  or maybe just a fluke... and what really sucks too is that i get mistaken for being middle eastern all the time!  i would have so many Customs latex-fingers all over me i would have  ed good God, nothing like seeing adults standing there barefoot or in their socks.  why couldnt that jackass had a bra-bomb? 
Originally posted by Tourgasm:
Sometimes you can mess up a word so bad that spell check doens't know what the hell you're talking about.
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Originally posted by ZoomZoom Diva:
I see profiling as ineffective and easily circumvented. The first thing they would do is suddenly recruit people who don't look that way.
That would at least buy us time. At best, we'd get air travel that is as well policed as those flying in/out of Israel. Muslim terrorists would love to bring one of those down, yet it rarely happens. Seems they're doing something right, so I suspect your supposition of ineffectiveness is inaccurate.
Originally posted by ZoomZoom Diva:
Considering the number of terrorists compared to the number of middle eastern males (even if terrorists are truly a subset), you're going to piss off and alienate a lot of innocent people. The difference in probability is not statistically significant.
Tough. Don't like it? Stop Muslim extremists. We didn't start by singling them out, it would be the reaction to extremist terrorism if we did so. Blame THEM, not us. If it pisses them off enough to not want to come here, great. Problem solved. 
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Jesus Christ, put the profiling thing to rest. It's stupid.
Wanna know why?
Because, of the 23 people arrested in Britain recently, they weren't all "Muslim-looking". Most of them were born in Britain, all of them had lived most of their entire lives in Britain, and three of them were White guys named Oliver, Don, and Brian. Most of them were very young in age, as young as 17. They haven't released photos of all of them (none that I've seen anyhow), but one of the big stories in Britain is that these all look like "normal" people. The whole "how are we supposed to catch them when they look like any one of us" thing is running rampant through the British media right now.
And what of the transit bombers in Britain? One of the four wasn't Brown, he was a black guy from Jamaica.
And the "Show Bomber"? Richard Reid. You might think he looks like a Muslim guy, but he's the product of a Black father and White mother. Born and raised in Britain. If he cleaned up a bit there's no way he would have gotten caught by any "profiling" system.
Despite what you want to believe they're not all "middle-aged brown people"! Yes, they were all "Muslim", but is your next plan to put religious affiliation on your driver's license so that we can see that? Yeah, I'm sure all would-be bombers will be sure to check that box off for you.
They have zero problems recruiting other people to their cause, as evidenced by the wide variety of people involved in their crimes. If you start profiling and targetting specific looking people they'll simply recruit people that look differently. They're not [censored] stupid.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
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If you want the lighter side of it, read this Seanbaby article, though fair warning, it's got a lot of foul language and some may not agree with it, though you should look at it like it is, an article from a comedian, if you don't like it, that's cool, I think it's funny. Seanbaby rules.
'99 Spruce Green SE "Sport" 'Tour, 2.5L MTX...80K and running like it just rolled off the lot.
Tryin' to add an extra .5L ASAP
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Sorry Siggy, I won't let it go. Profiling is a tool like many others. If it is likely to save lives, and I think it is, then I say use it. I mentioned a system used by airports in Isreal. That seems to be working. IIRC it is a combination of profiling & behavior monitoring. Use it.
Got a better idea than random searches? Let us know because random searches are a freaking JOKE & huge numbers of man-hours & vast resources are wasted in these efforts.
The whole point of my end of the discussion is to find a better way. You're a bight guy, moreso than I for sure, so I welcome your constructive input.
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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I do not see how doing that is policing better than applying the same security regulations to everybody. When you apply to everybody, there are no loopholes. Essentially, you do your checking, and if you have probable cause, you pull them aside for more in-depth checks.
The neo-cons have spread the seeds of paranoia well, and people are just willing to let them do whatever they want. It's like people throwing off their clothes to get beads at Mardi Gras.
I think we need to accept this as a risk of flying and make decisions accordingly. I don't think we can ban and profile ourselves into any additional level of security, and you're tromping all over people's rights and any form of ethical fairness while you are at it. The day we purposely add ways tp treat people differently because of race and religion, is the day we take a major step back as an ethical and free society.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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Originally posted by sigma:
Jesus Christ, put the profiling thing to rest. It's stupid.
Wanna know why?
Because, of the 23 people arrested in Britain recently, they weren't all "Muslim-looking". Most of them were born in Britain, all of them had lived most of their entire lives in Britain, and three of them were White guys named Oliver, Don, and Brian. Most of them were very young in age, as young as 17. They haven't released photos of all of them (none that I've seen anyhow), but one of the big stories in Britain is that these all look like "normal" people. The whole "how are we supposed to catch them when they look like any one of us" thing is running rampant through the British media right now.
And what of the transit bombers in Britain? One of the four wasn't Brown, he was a black guy from Jamaica.
And the "Show Bomber"? Richard Reid. You might think he looks like a Muslim guy, but he's the product of a Black father and White mother. Born and raised in Britain. If he cleaned up a bit there's no way he would have gotten caught by any "profiling" system.
Despite what you want to believe they're not all "middle-aged brown people"! Yes, they were all "Muslim", but is your next plan to put religious affiliation on your driver's license so that we can see that? Yeah, I'm sure all would-be bombers will be sure to check that box off for you.
They have zero problems recruiting other people to their cause, as evidenced by the wide variety of people involved in their crimes. If you start profiling and targetting specific looking people they'll simply recruit people that look differently. They're not [censored] stupid.
I said muslim people, not just LOOKING muslim. ALL of them, and if we piss them off, tough [censored]. I don't know about most here but I believe if we have to alter our lives in ANY way they have won. I'm not willing to accept that. Then again I'm a stone-cold conservative and taking crap from religious zealots isn't in my rulebook.
And if you believe that any kind of "soft touch" approach will solve this, you are very wrong.
Jim T.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats".--H.L. Mencken
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OXYMORON #65 - Liberal Thinker
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Tell me how you are going to have any idea if someone is Muslim or not? There are many Muslims who don't look anything like thestereotype and many non-Muslims who do?
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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