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I have a question. If the Mercury Villager performs well, is it because it is actually a Japanese minivan (Nissan Quest until 2002)? If it performs poorly, is it because it is actually an American minivan? And if they are the same, why are residual values worse for the Villager compared to the Quest?
Hint. Perception.
Last edited by Tony2005; 08/02/06 03:26 AM.
"Always do the cheap and easy ones first."
1996 V6 ATX 96K miles
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Well, the first generation was an excellent minivan because Nissan was in their good design phase, and the second generation wasn't nearly as nice because Nissan was in their incompetent design phase.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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Originally posted by ZoomZoom Diva:
Your blame of Ford in the Explorer case is completely based on fiction. Firestone did not deliver the tire they were contracted to deliver, it's that simple.
Why don't you read up a little bit on Ford's part in this fiasco and get back to us.
I'm guessing if you checked out a site called "The Tire Channel", you'd find that it was the Explorer that was at fault.
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I cannot seem to locate that site. I would have been willing to read it, but I would be greatly surprised if it gave anything I haven't already read. I have read many articles and sites about this issue over the years. Ford had no part in it, except through Firestone's attempts to shift blame for not delivering what they were paid to. The facts and statistics simply do not support the hypothesis the vehicle was faulty.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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I have no life
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It was partially ford's fault and partially firestone's. From what I've seen, it was more firestones fault.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
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Originally posted by ZoomZoom Diva:
I cannot seem to locate that site. I would have been willing to read it, but I would be greatly surprised if it gave anything I haven't already read. The facts and statistics simply do not support the hypothesis the vehicle was faulty.
Do you really think Ford didn't pay for studies and facts and stats that said their car wasn't at fault just to avoid having to admit they designed a flawed vehicle? Other companies do this all the time.
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Originally posted by red99sesport:
Originally posted by ZoomZoom Diva:
I cannot seem to locate that site. I would have been willing to read it, but I would be greatly surprised if it gave anything I haven't already read. The facts and statistics simply do not support the hypothesis the vehicle was faulty.
Do you really think Ford didn't pay for studies and facts and stats that said their car wasn't at fault just to avoid having to admit they designed a flawed vehicle? Other companies do this all the time.
How do you explain this? So it was more tire fault than vehicle fault, wasn't it?
"First, Ford fitted both Firestone tires and Goodyear tires on Explorers beginning in 1995 and through the 1997 model year. And the difference in performance is dramatic. For the roughly 3 million Firestone tires equipped on about 500,000 Explorers, Firestone's own claims database shows that there have been 1,183 claims of tread separation. For the 3 million Goodyear tires on another 500,000 Explorers (that have traveled more than 25 billion miles), there have been only two minor claims of tread separation according to claims information supplied by Goodyear. The performance on the Firestone AT tires on Explorer is 600 times worse than Goodyear tires on Explorer. This remains the only apples-to-apples comparison in this issue. If the vehicle was the issue, or at the very least a contributing factor, the tread separations between the Firestone and Goodyear tires would be in the same ballpark. They are not even close. That's why Ford is replacing the Firestone Wilderness AT tires.
Second, when Ford engineers tested the Wilderness AT tires over the past nine months, they found that the tires were more sensitive to stresses and consistently failed at higher rates, at lower speeds and lighter loads than other tires tested, including the Goodyear tires used on Explorer.
Third, the failure rates of Firestone Wilderness AT tires differ dramatically based on the plant in which they were made. If the vehicle were the cause of these separations, the tire plant location would not make a difference in rate of tread separations reported.
Finally, Firestone CEO John Lampe testified last year before Congress under oath and said the following: "We made some bad tires and we take full responsibility for those." When a Senator asked, "Are bad tires equated to be tires that have defects of some kind," Mr. Lampe responded, "Yes, sir."
Last edited by Tony2005; 08/02/06 03:53 AM.
"Always do the cheap and easy ones first."
1996 V6 ATX 96K miles
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Do you really think that Firestone wouldn't distort reality to shift the blame from them either? It's a matter of looking at everything, interpreting it, and assembling it into the most realistic set of facts.
I found too many things that simply didn't add up to a flawed vehicle (or at least one more flawed than the general class, which is an assessment of reasonable prudence).
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
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Jacques Nassar (remember him) also said that the Explorer fiasco was all Firestone's fault. Apparently he did not think that Ford's specifying an unreasonably low tire pressure (since Explorers tended to flip at the normal 30 psi) had anything to do with the extreme failure rate of the Firestone tires - and the related rollovers.
Apparently your exhaustive research on the Explorer fiasco failed to turn up anythng about this.
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The vehicle design goes down to what tires you pick for it. If you pick a tire with a higher failure rate that is more sensetive to things a car sees often, then your design choices were poor and you are at fault. As an automaker it is your responsiility to make damn sure all your suppliers supply you with good parts. If you don't then the overall design of the vehicle may be compromised. That is your issue and your issue alone. It is especially your issue when you knew before releasing the vehicle to the public that the car's handling was so adversly effected by tire pressures and that the low tire pressure you recommended would need a tire that could resist failure due to heat buildup more than you would need on other vehicles. Ford could have corrected the tire pressure issue by lowering the center of gravity of the car, fitting it the an IRS or any number of other things. Instead they chose to fix the problems by adjusting tire pressures downward. This was an accident waiting to happen because as soon as you lower pressure in a tire to a abnormally low level you are asking for eventual failure. If you knew that failure would case the car to be almost impossible to keep on the road because of its high center of gravity, then it was your responsibility to not only not recommend the lower tire pressure, but to make the handling safer by adding the IRS and lowering the center of gravity of the car.
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