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Originally posted by kipsvt98:
Congrats to Ford for producing an engine that is 4-5 years too late. Too many companies already been there done that.
sadly GM hasnt done it yet.... Friggan 3800 hasnt changed pretty much at all since it first started.
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The Duratec 35 is more than just catch up, even if it is late to the party.
However, I do agree that Ford needs to be playing this game more aggressively.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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Cool Toe Chris
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Cool Toe Chris
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Originally posted by cuda06:
for example see this article
SVT is gone, dead, kaput. Get over it. Talk to a number of FMC employees or ex-employees. The main players are gone. It is done. When/if it comes back, that's a different story.
Chris
NJ
98.5 SVT Silver Frost
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Originally posted by AliasJerkââ??¢:
Originally posted by kipsvt98:
Congrats to Ford for producing an engine that is 4-5 years too late. Too many companies already been there done that.
sadly GM hasnt done it yet.... Friggan 3800 hasnt changed pretty much at all since it first started.
Jared, the 3800 has been "refined" over the past 20 years, its not in its "Series III" stage. Its been blown since 92' going from 205, 225, 240, 260 hp with much more left in there to find  You don't mess with perfection, period!
I see the big Volvo is getting the Yamaha V8 with about 315 hp, damn, it would be nice to see a perf version of the 500/Montego, wouldn't it  
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It's far from perfection. It needs forced induction to keep up with naturally aspirated competitors, and even in that guise cannot compete in economy and refinement. GM has a horrible penchant in the last 20 years or so for pushing antiquated technologies as far as they can go instead of pushing themselves ahead with new ones.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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Originally posted by Pete D:
Some of you guys need to put down the Ford Kool-Aid. You're off popping bottles of Moet because Ford catches up with the competition. With their constantly shrinking marketshare they need to do something besides play catch-up.
I suggest you read up on the Duratec35 before assuming it's "just playing catch-up". It's at least one full generation above what Nissan and Toyota have on market. You can't just look at the horsepower number and conclude it's on-par with the competition.
It's been designed with every conceivable upgrade in mind right from the start. It's designed for higher-compression applications than other motors on the market and specifically designed for future addition of direct-injection and forced induction, and does it while being on the capable of meeting the most stringent of foreseeable emissions requirements. The addition of direct-injection alone (which Ford is getting experience in via Mazda right now) will make it 300+hp engine at no cost to Ford whatsoever. And, what's more, it can produce it for cheaper than the competition can produce theirs.
It's got all the features that the competition is designing into their future motors now. It's not power that matters as much anymore, 300hp in a FWD sedan is plenty, particularly when the market for large motors in smaller cars is having the bottom fall out of it. The future isn't besting in power. It's delivering that power efficiently. What matters now is V6 motors that are highly configurable for particular applications, are good at both medium- and high-power applications and, more importantly, use modern technology to deliver that power at minimal fuel consumption and emissions.
It's a V6 that will make Ford capable of roughly the same thing that Nissan did -- a common motor that can cover virtually the entire lineup. Except Ford is using a better motor to do it with. Nissan was forced to start with a very capable motor, but it's truck-based roots become glaringly obvious in its' high-power applications. It's not quite the ideal motor to use in both sedans and sports cars.
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Originally posted by sigma:
I suggest you read up on the Duratec35 before assuming it's "just playing catch-up". It's at least one full generation above what Nissan and Toyota have on market. You can't just look at the horsepower number and conclude it's on-par with the competition.
It's been designed with every conceivable upgrade in mind right from the start. It's designed for higher-compression applications than other motors on the market and specifically designed for future addition of direct-injection and forced induction, and does it while being on the capable of meeting the most stringent of foreseeable emissions requirements. The addition of direct-injection alone (which Ford is getting experience in via Mazda right now) will make it 300+hp engine at no cost to Ford whatsoever.
It's got all the features that the competition is designing into their future motors now. It's not power that matters as much anymore, 300hp in a FWD sedan is plenty, particularly when the market for large motors in smaller cars is having the bottom fall out of it. The future isn't besting in power. It's delivering that power efficiently. What matters now is V6 motors that are highly configurable for particular applications, are good at both medium- and high-power applications and, more importantly, use modern technology to deliver that power at minimal fuel consumption and emissions.
It's a V6 that will make Ford capable of roughly the same thing that Nissan did -- a common motor that can cover virtually the entire lineup. Except Ford is using a better motor to do it with. Nissan was forced to start with a very capable motor, but it's truck-based roots become glaringly obvious in its' high-power applications. It's not quite the ideal motor to use in both sedans and sports cars.
I have done a fair amount of reading (as oddly enough I am involved in a similar discussion over on escape-central).
They said that it is designed for adding, direct injection, turbo-charging, hyrbridization and other technologies down the road. Yet, all of those techs are here today (and some, like turbos have been around a long time). IMO, if they wanted to make a big splash they should have put some of those things in the engine NOW.
AFAIK, Ford's market share is still slipping and this isn't going to bring many customers too them. Sure people might end up getting a Freestyle or something with the new engine (because it isn't underpowered any more) but they won't be stealing any competition from the Japanese (and now Korean) name plates, which is what they NEED to do.
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Originally posted by Pete D:
Some of you guys need to put down the Ford Kool-Aid. You're off popping bottles of Moet because Ford catches up with the competition. With their constantly shrinking marketshare they need to do something besides play catch-up.
So you are saying the duratec 2.5L from 1995 that was 5-10 hp higher than its nearest competitor was a come from behind?
THe 3.0 has been making 200/200 for 10 years already! lol
In basic hybrid SVT cam form they routinely set down 210+ as much as 220wheelHP. That's 260+ crank HP out of a 3.0L engine!! 
How does your nissan 3.5 compare to that? About the same with an extra .5L displacement. All things considered the 3.0L conversion with cams exhaust and tuning is about as efficient as the 3.5L in the 350z producing less power but not by a lot and definitely expected with the half liter smaller engine.
So its all relative.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
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Originally posted by sigma:
Nissan was forced to start with a very capable motor, but it's truck-based roots become glaringly obvious in its' high-power applications. It's not quite the ideal motor to use in both sedans and sports cars.
What truck motor is that? The VQ started out in cars long before it was used in any trucks or SUV's.
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The Durtech was ahead in 1995, some forget. And HP is not the 'be all, end all' measure of a motor. How about real world stuff like: emissions, MPG [$1 a gallon is gone forever boys], durability longevity?  Just because the CSVT [or SVTC to some purists] was canned, doesn't mean SVT is dead. Henry Ford the 1st is dead, so does that mean Ford Mo Co is also dead? 
2005 Nissan Sentra 1.8 SE, Code Red. '00 Tropic Green Ford Escort SE [Contour's little cousin]
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