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Originally posted by IRingTwyce:
1) I was amazed how clean the wash water stayed while using the two-bucket method! When I finished the car, I could still see the bottom of the bucket because the water was still so clean! I was amazed. 
I'm glad someone is using this method. Did you see how dirty the rinse bucket was?
Originally posted by DefZ:
Well - first off. DON'T EVER USE DISH SOAP!!! I'm SHOCKED that the Zaino site said to do that. They should be shunned for that. Dish soap will discolor your plastic moldings - the alkalinity is made for dishes, not paint and plastic. Plus, it gets into the local drinking water, etc... If you are concerned about grease buildup, go to the store and get something that will remove grease from cars. Tar-off will do it. A citrus based cleaner will do it. Just don't EVER use dishsoap. It does more harm than good.
Please don't post when it's quite clear you do not know what you are talking about. I have used Dawn for many years with ZERO ill effects.
Originally posted by Klasse Act:
I may have switched from Mequiars to acrylics, but I WILL NEVER EVER USE DISHSOAP on my or my customers paint 
Why? It's good enough to clean your eating utensils, plates, bowls, pots and pans that you and your family eat from but not good enough for your car's paint?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a Dawn or any other dish liquid on your paint - as long as you use it sparingly and infrequently. When diluted and rinsed properly, dish soap does no harm to your car.
To all those screaming that dish soap is harmful:
Prove it. Otherwise, please refrain from posting unsupported information.
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Originally posted by GT-Slow Pete:
I'm glad someone is using this method. Did you see how dirty the rinse bucket was?
Actually, I dumped the rinse water after each two sections of the car (very dirty!), and I think that helped keep the wash bucket clean more than anything.
Originally posted by GT-Slow Pete:
I have used Dawn for many years with ZERO ill effects. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a Dawn or any other dish liquid on your paint - as long as you use it sparingly and infrequently. When diluted and rinsed properly, dish soap does no harm to your car.
To all those screaming that dish soap is harmful:
Prove it. Otherwise, please refrain from posting unsupported information.
Ahhh...finally! I no longer stand alone!
Work has derailed my detailing attempt this week, so I'll probably be starting over next week. I'll post pics this time, as I've finally replaced my stolen digital camera.
Just a quick thanks to Pete & KlasseAct for all the detailing advice! I can't tell you how much easier it makes the process.
BrApple-its all in the way it is presented...but everythign on my resume is all me
TexasRealtor-I hope you spelling improves on your resume.
MxRacer-ladies and gentlemen, welcome to ironyville. population, texasrelator.
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Woah there Nelly, settle down. I wasn't challenging your manhood. In spite of the few posts, I've been around the block a few times, so easy with the NOOB comments. Just some background. I've been in the professional car-washing business for over 5 years, and have learned a thing or two. 1. Dishsoap is made for dishes. The plastics used in food containers are different from the mouldings and other plastic components on your car. Remember that there are degrees of alkalinity - acid and acidic are the same thing. A citrus cleaner CAN be put on your car - with 7 being neutral, a pH of 6.5 isn't going to hurt your car. It's acidic yes, but you can consume citric acid (in the form of orange juice) while you would NEVER consumer hydroflouric acid. As others have concurred, you can use a citrus to clean the paint. Or, you can get a true CLEANER polish that will revome grease and wax buildup. There are those as well. 2. Sorry I misunderstood the timing of the clean and the paintjob. I'll stand behind my comment, however. New or old, get the right stuff. You'd hate to turn around in a couple of years and find out that play-doh actually dulled the paint. All to save $10/year. Way the pros and cons. It's pretty cut and dried as far as I can see. Maybe they are the same thing, but how would you know? Originally posted by louisw:
Originally posted by DefZ:
Well - first off. DON'T EVER USE DISH SOAP!!! I'm SHOCKED that the Zaino site said to do that. They should be shunned for that. Dish soap will discolor your plastic moldings - the alkalinity is made for dishes, not paint and plastic. Plus, it gets into the local drinking water, etc...
dawn comes in a clear plastic bottle. seems to be ok. as far as the toxicity, it's not motor oil; it'll be fine. runoff from your sink ends up in the same place.
Your sink water goes to the sewer, where it ends up in water treatment. Storm runoff (the drains in front of your house on the road) goes to either a river, or ocean, or reservoir not too far from you. At least that's how it works here in Taxachusetts. Do some research, you'll see I'm right in most cases.
To GT-Slow Pete: I DO know what I'm talking about, that's why I posted. Your experience may be different, but just because you don't agree doesn't make it so. I will try to dig up some info on this. Give me a little while, though. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I'll see what I can find. Can you provide some proof as well (beyond anecdotal) that dishsoap is safe?
Horsepower is more expensive than crack.
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Originally posted by DefZ:
To GT-Slow Pete: I DO know what I'm talking about, that's why I posted. Your experience may be different, but just because you don't agree doesn't make it so. I will try to dig up some info on this. Give me a little while, though. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I'll see what I can find. Can you provide some proof as well (beyond anecdotal) that dishsoap is safe?
Your opinion that using dish soap is harmful has no factual basis. I have sporadically seen people on various sites - both car enthusiast and detailing claiming dish soap is harmful. But I have yet to see a single documented incident where dish soap was the cause of any kind of damage.
As I stated before, I use it sparingly and rarely. Only in cases when I need to remove old wax from a customer's car. In most cases the vehicle has not been waxes in many, many months and there is no wax to remove.
My proof is based on my personal experience using dish soap. It has never damaged any part of any vehicle I have ever used dish soap on - period.
I've been around the block several times.  Managed a detail shop for 2 yesrs, have been detailing cars for 15 years and used hundreds of different products learning much from trial and error.
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I don't believe that dish soap will damage the car but there are many clueless owners that regularly wash their cars with dish soap and that is a bad thing unless you wax your car after every wash. It is common knowledge that if you use dish soap it will strip/remove wax and that is the only real problem. Like Pete said if you use if before a major detail job to remove all the grime and old wax then that is common but for your regular washes it is definitely a  and besides dish soap really isn't that much cheaper then a decent auto wash product since most car wash soaps are concentrate and don't take too much to was a car. Just my .02 
Scott
2000 Contour SVT #1464
Mustang Dyno: 171.6hp/145.3lb
Dynojet Dyno: 171.1hp/148.9lb
1989 20th Anniversary Turbo T/A "Indy 500 Pace Car"
#1376 of 1550 All Original, 46k with a few mods
2002 F150 SuperCrew
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Originally posted by GT-Slow Pete:
Originally posted by DefZ:
To GT-Slow Pete: I DO know what I'm talking about, that's why I posted. Your experience may be different, but just because you don't agree doesn't make it so. I will try to dig up some info on this. Give me a little while, though. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I'll see what I can find. Can you provide some proof as well (beyond anecdotal) that dishsoap is safe?
Your opinion that using dish soap is harmful has no factual basis. I have sporadically seen people on various sites - both car enthusiast and detailing claiming dish soap is harmful. But I have yet to see a single documented incident where dish soap was the cause of any kind of damage.
As I stated before, I use it sparingly and rarely. Only in cases when I need to remove old wax from a customer's car. In most cases the vehicle has not been waxes in many, many months and there is no wax to remove.
My proof is based on my personal experience using dish soap. It has never damaged any part of any vehicle I have ever used dish soap on - period.
I've been around the block several times. Managed a detail shop for 2 yesrs, have been detailing cars for 15 years and used hundreds of different products learning much from trial and error.
Okay, point taken. I will, however, talk to a few industry people and see what I can dig up. I know for sure, that dishsoap is detrimental to certain plastics on cars - it shows up as faded components. For example, on my Evo, the window mouldings at the B-pillar don't respond well to certain alkilinity - it tends to fade and turn the plastic white. It can be fixed (to a certain degree) by polishing it, but it will stain and discolor. Alot of those touch free car washes (the ones that you park under and they move around you) have trouble balancing good cleaning with safety to all vehicle types.
But like I said, I will talk to the people who know and see what I can come up with.
There is most definitely an environmental aspect to driveway washing that shouldn't be overlooked.
Horsepower is more expensive than crack.
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Originally posted by DefZ:
..There is most definitely an environmental aspect to driveway washing that shouldn't be overlooked.
The harm from dish soap is negligible compared to the oil and grease and grime that you wash away from the car (which is also negligible). If it is really that bad, then none of us should drive when it rains (and should go to a covered parking lot). The rain water washes the undersides of the car every well, which tend to have more oil, grease, grime and the rainwater flows from the pavement to stormdrain inlets (or earthen ditches) to the rivers.
And yes, I am environmentally conscious too.
"Always do the cheap and easy ones first."
1996 V6 ATX 96K miles
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Tony,
Actually, you are very incorrect. Driving in the rain does NOT clean the undercarriage of your car. It has the opposite effect.
Rain does NOT wash greases and oils off of your car. I accidentally spilled a little transmission fluid on my driveway a few weeks ago when I changed the wifes alternator, and even after 5 inches of rain (no kidding - wet spring here in MA) there is still tranny fluid on the driveway. So on point 2, you are not correct. If you want to try to prove me wrong, put a small amount of any type of oil you want on the hood of your car, right before a rain storm, and go out the next day to see what is there. You'll see.
The dishsoap in and of itself is not a big problem, but the contaminents that it removes goes right down the sewer and into the local water supply. We've already covered that.
Horsepower is more expensive than crack.
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"Driving in the rain does NOT clean the undercarriage of your car. It has the opposite effect."
Water splashes up. My experience with water in the lower O2 sensor connections.
"Rain does NOT wash greases and oils off of your car."
It does. Why do you think, it is recommended to use waterproof grease on the undercarriage?
"I accidentally spilled a little transmission fluid on my driveway a few weeks ago when I changed the wifes alternator, and even after 5 inches of rain (no kidding - wet spring here in MA) there is still tranny fluid on the driveway."
Just because you see tranny fluid on the driveway does not mean the contaminants did not flow into the ditch or stormwater inlet after it rained.
" The dishsoap in and of itself is not a big problem, but the contaminents that it removes goes right down the sewer and into the local water supply. We've already covered that."
Based on this, are you saying that nobody should wash their cars in their driveways?
I am done with this thread. I am not wasting anymore bandwidth/time as it is obvious that you will only accept your own reasons. 
"Always do the cheap and easy ones first."
1996 V6 ATX 96K miles
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Tony - I know you won't be able to control yourself. Just trying to have a friendly discussion with opposing viewpoints. :-)
Try my experiment with the oil/grease on your car. See if it works. See how long it takes.
If the original poster was not concerned about grease buildup, this thread would not have been started. So you should also address his concerns as well. Something like "dude, why are you degreasing your car when the rain will do a good enough job?"
Driving in the rain does not clean your undercarriage. The water contains contaminents from the road, as well as salt (when driving in the snow), dirt (when driving through mud), and leaves (when driving in the fall). Driving through a couple of puddles may 'rinse' a few parts, but it's not a clean undercarriage and to hold on to that belief, well, I don't know what to say to that. It flies in the face of logic.
"Just because you see tranny fluid on the driveway does not mean the contaminants did not flow into the ditch or stormwater inlet after it rained."
I don't know what that means. My point was that even though a lot of water has flown over my small puddle, there is STILL grease on the ground. It wasn't "washed away" by the rain as you statement indicated it should.
Look - I'm not trying to contrary here. The original poster degreased his car with dish detergent. My point is that dish detergent is not good for the plastics on the car. I also pointed out that he should spend the extra couple of dollars and get real stuff. Like real detailers clay, although his statement that it may be the same stuff as artists clay is debatable (how would you know for sure anyways?), and real car wash soap, that is gauranteed safe on all parts of his car. As well as biodegradable (read the label). Not all cleaners are good for the environment, and especially the stuff it washes off isn't good.
No - I'm not a bid fan of the driveway car wash. Too many people do it wrong, in both practice and materials, too much water is wasted, and too many chemicals go into the environment. This stuff is preventable.
Horsepower is more expensive than crack.
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