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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,084
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,084 |
Yet terrorist attacks and assassination plots are planned and carried out by both sides. Nothing has been "appeased."
Fifteen men on a dead man's chest...
Maverick Machineworks is open for business!! Tell me what you need and I can make it!
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,718
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,718 |
Originally posted by PDXSVT:
On the notion that we should respond seriously to this letter from the Iranian Prez... That letter is a sandwich sign worn by that prez, which states in flashing neon letters: "I am a silly amateur (on the world stage)."
I don't see much reason to elevate his standing by giving him a public response. And privately? Is "nuanced" our present admin's specialty?
OK, but is it not at least worth a try to communicate to him in the same fashion? I'm all for trying things the "old-fashioned" way (i.e., diplomats hammering things out), but why not take a chance with a well thought-out response that would be targeted more towards Iranian Muslims than their leadership? I think the US has been given a bullhorn and a platform to address our concerns.
As an amateur, he's certainly been stirring the pot fairly well at the UN, IAEA and here at home where a raised eyebrow can set off a gang-rape session in the energy market. We are also at the beginning stages of our relationship with this new flavor of Iranian leadership...
Originally posted by PDXSVT:
Meanwhile, he is grandstanding and saying to us what his bosses and political constituents want to hear. Any response we'd give him would not be taken seriously by them.
I pretty much agree with this, but if we aim the letter at their base and Muslims in general, we mitigate his message and establish one of our own.
Sometimes the best way to topple a wall is to undermine what it was built upon...
Originally posted by PDXSVT:
And about someone grandstanding to gather up the support of his constituents: Thank goodness THAT never happens in politics outside of Iran.
Bait ignored; you and I will most likely shred this topic if we get into the finer points of our political dogma...
Originally posted by PDXSVT:
On a different tangent: Who here agrees with the Iranian prez, that liberalism has failed? It might be a bitter pill for some here that by Iran's official standards, Karl Rove is a liberal. Yes, Mr. Corbett, by their standards, so are you and liberals won WWII. (OK, I did not have to suggest that last point.) BTW, Tim, congrats on your engagement. May your journey together be long and rewarding.
I wouldn't say it has failed (at least nowhere in the sense that Communism has been an abject failure of a political system), but that British and American influence-peddling over the last century or so has caused some serious clashes of culture and values that has sparked old tensions and ignited new ones. Some of it was unavoidable, since the Cold War made strange bedfellows of the US and many Middle-Eastern countries due to a particular strategic resource that they have in abundance that was a "must" in terms of control.
I believe that Iran and many other fundamentalist Islamic countries do NOT differentiate between "conservative" or "liberal" when it involves their view of the Western mindset; G. Gordon Liddy is viewed in the same light that Jane Fonda would be for the most part. Why? We all represent a culture and value structure that is quite at odds with the fundamentalist stripes that some Middle-Eastern countries choose to wear.
I think many radical Muslims fear Westernization (or "liberalism", if I've deciphered your meaning here) as it's one of the most salient threats that exist to a fundamentalist way of life; they fear it more than they fear a bullet to the head for the most part.
Originally posted by PDXSVT:
And as last tangents: What should our civilization/culture do now to ensure that in 20 (or 5 or 50) years, control of the Strait of Hormuz does not control us? And where is a moderate, educated middle eastern middle class gonna come from?
Not a clue on the first one; things are too fluid right now for my melon to make sense of a direction we need to march off in. As for the second part of the question, they will come from moderate, educated Middle-Eastern countries, but good luck getting them to move out of Qatar, Baharain or UAE in droves to the more "redneck" areas of the Middle-East...
JaTo
e-Tough Guy
Missouri City, TX
99 Contour SVT
#143/2760
00 Corvette Coupe
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,718
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,718 |
Originally posted by Pete D:
Take out the nukes and those words could describe a number of African countries, yet nobody seems to care about those the way they do about the ME, why is that?
Oil is the foremost reason, but in addition to that, Africa is such a patchwork of anarchy, disease, ignorance, supersticion and willful hatred that for the most part, it's a self-perpetuating implosion. Outside a handful of countries, political systems in Africa have a half-life of months it seems.
Furthermore, most countries in Africa are hardly a threat to anyone but themselves in terms of military capability. It takes some resources and a degree of internal stability for a country to become an threat that those on the international stage worry about; most countries that have little to no national unity and next to no developed resources are usually dealing with numerous pockets of aggresors that want control over what little wealth there is...
There are places in Africa that are ripe to move on from the quagmires of despair that many have become, but there are many that are just too far gone right now.
JaTo
e-Tough Guy
Missouri City, TX
99 Contour SVT
#143/2760
00 Corvette Coupe
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,710
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,710 |
Iran's president today said that all young Muslim men are ticking atomic bombs that could go off at any time. Yes, we should negotiate with this lunatic!  
Also, this was on the same day (today) that the IAEA found weapons grade enriched uranium in Iran which they previously reported not having! SHOCKER!
- Tim
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