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Originally posted by GreaseyMonkey:
i'm not bashing or flaming or anything, but for those of you that are shooting down all the people voicing their opinions about illegal immigrants being here and you're providing counter-points to it, are you on the side of the immigrants?
do you think they should be granted citizenship without having to go through process?
i for one, don't think that they should be granted citizenship. i don't necessarily think that our country should jump the gun and just outright deport every single one of them. they are here illegally... that much is evident from what we call them. but really.. how hard is it to immigrate legally, or get a temporary visa? i don't honestly know for sure, but last i knew of (which could very well be wrong, as it's been a long time.) legal immigration was not exactly an astoundingly difficult task. i know that there is a test that involves having a fairly basic ability to read, write and speak American English, and for what i know, there is a bit of American history in it.
it would take a bit of studying, but if you REALLY wanted to come to this country (like as much as to make you border jump...) then this should come as a fairly simple task. at least in my experience, as long as you WANT to study something, it will be that much easier to comprehend.
again though, this is not flamebait, even though i've given my opinion. i acknowledge i do not know all the facts, but i am certainly comfortable with my opinion though.
and again for those of you bashing those that do not have all the facts, after presenting us with quite a few facts about these illegals, what is your opinion, i am very anxious to hear it..
Very well written post. I can only speak for myself, so that I will do. I agree with what you said fully. I am not anti-immigrant or pro-immigrant. I posted some things that most people do not know about. I am simply trying to share some facts so that if they engage in any conversation on the topic, they are more prepared and if they have no rebuttle(sp?) for or against some facts, then they will know to not get involved. I am in no way saying that to anyone on here in particular. I agree to a point, that a full frontal flood of illegals is not a good thing, but deporting them all certainly isn't good either. Building a wall I think is a rediculous idea. What happens when people try to take boats by the dozens? are we going to build a wall bordering our entire country? It's rediculous. Not to menton, we are at war. Do you really want to create more catastrophe than we can handle? Many other countries hate us simply for this war and its "real objectives" or whathaveyou. Do we really need more enemies right now? For those that believe this is that big of a problem, and something must be done, you have to agree that in the time of war, it isn't the best time to be doing something like this. It doesn't help make matters better.
*edit*
Sigma...well said.
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Originally posted by sigma:
Because if your family would have tried to come in now they wouldn't be allowed in. They obviously didn't possess the skills or earning power that the government now requires immigrants to possess.
So whats the solution to the problem? Let them all in because there is a chance one or more could be productive?
I agree it's too tough as is to get into the U.S. but thats the state of affairs we put ourselves in. If there weren't 11 million illegals in the country, maybe we could stand to make the procedures a little more lax?[
"Moore has also accused the American people of being the stupidest, most naive people on the face of the Earth. And after last weekend, he's got the box office numbers to prove it!"
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they could all just join the marines and go to iraq.....cant they become citizens that way? 
Originally posted by Tourgasm:
Sometimes you can mess up a word so bad that spell check doens't know what the hell you're talking about.
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Originally posted by a troll Aarrrrrrr:
...
Who are you anyways???
"Moore has also accused the American people of being the stupidest, most naive people on the face of the Earth. And after last weekend, he's got the box office numbers to prove it!"
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Originally posted by 99blacksesport:
Originally posted by a troll Aarrrrrrr:
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Who are you anyways???
comic relief...lol
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Originally posted by posthuman63t:
-Since 1986, when the Immigration reform and control act went into play, the US has spent tens of millions of dollars trying to tighten border security.
There's a difference between spending money and spending money EFFECTIVELY. Everything up to now has been half-measures, rhetoric and legislative BS.
Originally posted by posthuman63t:
-A large percentage of Mexican workers are so exasperated with economic conditions in their country that they're willing to risk anything to improve the plight of their families.
That is very true and personally, I don't blame them one bit from trying to get the Hell out of Mexico; I've been in some of the rough parts of Leon, Mexico City, Aguas Caliente, Juarez and even worse: up in some of the hill country just north of Mexico City. Those "hills" are mounds of trash that some folks live on...
It's DISGUSTING how some of these people have to live and any sane person stuck in the middle of it would high-tail it out of these places as fast as they could...
Originally posted by posthuman63t:
-Douglas Massey (one of the countries top immigration experts) has shown that if immigrants are willing to make at least 3 attempts, they will eventually succeed in crossing into US territory.
It's pretty freaking easy to get into the US; living in El Paso and having to work in Juarez from time to time took me across the patrolled area and even those had folks wading across the Rio Grande in broad daylight from time to time; go 20-30 miles out and it's a damn free-for-all for anyone that wants to sneak across.
Originally posted by posthuman63t:
-The estimated 7 million (or so) illegal immigrant workers in the US are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 BILLION a year. Ths amount is enormous, contibutions to Social Security added up to about 10% of last years surplus. MOREOVER, the moey paid by illegal workers and their employers IS FACTORED into all the Social Security Administrations projections. (My opinion: If we don't want them here, why do we expect/count on their money?)
BS; I have a serious problem with this because it's not looking at the entire picture.
The average income level is typically so meager for illegal immigrants that they serve as a financial "drain" on social services and resources without putting anything substantial in. Furthermore, I would wager that statistics will prove out that the BULK of "illegals" are paid under the table (i.e., cash), so NO taxes of any sort is seen off of them. Even the ones that are paying taxes will most likely get a sizeable return due to deductions because of familiy size (tons of kids).
There's a reason hispanics are the fastest-growing minority in the US and it's not solely because they are coming up from Mexico in record numbers...
Finally, the BILLIONS of untaxed dollars that leave for Mexico is a drain on the US economy as well and it's something that the vast majority of "illegals" partake in doing. Fox (Mexico's President) knew what he was doing when he threw a polite fit about how the US was positioning immigration policy; those dollars prop up a not insignificant portion of the Mexican economy...
Originally posted by posthuman63t:
- In 2002 alone, (the last year with figures released by the Social Security Admin.), nine million W-2's with incorrect Social Security numbers landed in the suspense file, accounting for $56 billion in earnings.
So? This tells me nothing; it does not tell me if these were screw-ups from US citizens or illegal immigrants trying to get tax checks from Uncle Sam that generated them income vs. the amount they paid into the system...
Originally posted by posthuman63t:
- According to immigration specialists, it is impossible to know exactly how many immigrants pay taxes, but most specialists agree that most of them DO.
Anybody (legal or illegal) that consumes goods pays taxes of some sort (sales tax on goods, necessities, durables and energy), but that's not they key concern here.
Originally posted by posthuman63t:
As long as I'm on the topic of how many ARE paying taxes, I would also like to note that they are paying them, knowing that they will not see that money again through social security or otherwise.
Yes, the ones that have tax ID's have learned to bilk the System for the most part and get sizeable returns. It doesn't take an accountant to figure out enough child credits and deductions at a low-income level can pay dividends...
__________________________________________________________
I want the hard-working and honest illegals to find a home here, but I want them to do it legally where they get employers to start subsidizing some of their medical and social service needs like the company I work for does with me. If that means paying a few cents higher for lettuce, chicken, getting my lawn done or whatever, so be it. That cost is FAR cheaper than having the IRS shoving their damn hands in my pockets even deeper over the years because the strain that illegals will ultimately place on the US infrastructure.
Among the many issues that France is dealing with, one of the more pressing ones is illegal immigration and the DESPERATE strain that they have placed upon the social structure there; I have NO interest in seeing the US coming even close to this.
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Originally posted by a troll Aarrrrrrr:
they could all just join the marines and go to iraq.....cant they become citizens that way?
I heard something like that the other day on No Spin with Bill O'Reilly. He said that it will be deemed unconstitutional because there is no draft at the moment. Them coming in and becoming soldiers under forced military service without a draft would be illegal.
I'm just repeating what he said, to those of you ready to pounce on me.
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Haha that's awesome! Go GM!
YES, SIR!!!
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Originally posted by 99blacksesport:
Originally posted by sigma:
Because if your family would have tried to come in now they wouldn't be allowed in. They obviously didn't possess the skills or earning power that the government now requires immigrants to possess.
So whats the solution to the problem? Let them all in because there is a chance one or more could be productive?
I agree it's too tough as is to get into the U.S. but thats the state of affairs we put ourselves in. If there weren't 11 million illegals in the country, maybe we could stand to make the procedures a little more lax?[
No, I'm not saying that they should all be allowed in. But the overall resounding message throughout all this crap the past few months is that most of these people want to be here legally. But for a variety of reasons they cannot. Some can't afford the lawyer fees, some can't afford to always be near an INS office, few can meet the overly restrictive basic income requirements, some just flat-out don't know how to do it, and some probably can't pass a background check (and they shouldn't be allowed in here).
We need to allow people in that want to be here as long as they're not massive drains on the economy. But we need to maintain national security as well. We don't need to be lining the pockets of tens of thousands of immigration lawyers for exhorbitant fees for simple paperwork and we don't need a process that takes years and years the complete for no reason at all other than the fact that it justifies the jobs of 25,000 INS employees shuffling some paperwork back and forth.
There's a line somewhere between an Ellis Island Open Door, (which is why all of 'our' families are legal, it was basically impossible to not be legal sine all you had to do was sign your name), and a decade of paperwork and enough MUCH-needed money to send your child to college in our great nation and give your next generation a head-start in life.
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Originally posted by 99blacksesport:
Originally posted by a troll Aarrrrrrr:
...
Who are you anyways???
im your worst nightmare  [/slyvester stallone voice off]
Originally posted by Tourgasm:
Sometimes you can mess up a word so bad that spell check doens't know what the hell you're talking about.
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Originally posted by a troll Aarrrrrrr:
they could all just join the marines and go to iraq.....cant they become citizens that way?
There's actually something like 75,000 undocumented people in the US military. IIRC, the first casualty of the latest Iraq War was actually an illegal from Guatemala.
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