Originally posted by Stazi:
Originally posted by JaTo:
Here we go again...

1) Refining capacity has been a PROVEN bottleneck; we have more oil in the chain than we have GAS being produced. Basic supply/demand here.


I don't see ANY shortages ANYWHERE so I don't buy that argument - even the Hurrican Katrina induced gouging was unjustified as it happened THE DAY the hurrican hit, when the gas was already sitting i the tanks at the stations!



The actual "gouging", where prices skyrocketed dollars a t a time, was a product of station owners. Gas companies don't own most of their stations (and none of the ones accused of gouging), independent owners do.

Gas prices did go up a fair bit in other places, as a deterrent to prevent people from sucking all the gas out of the tanks and causing a real shortage. These prices last 2-3 days, when it was clear that the supply lines weren't as disrupted as feared, the prices went down. And went down to lower than they were before in most places.

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Originally posted by JaTo:

3) Iran is the 4th largest oil-producing country in the world and like Venezuela (another oil behemoth), their ties to the West have "soured" as of late. There is a risk component to the price of crude oil and political instability with one of the world's largest consumers of oil and a couple of the world's largest producers of it tends to SPIKE this component.


There's MANY oil producing nations to offset bad blood with Iran and Venezuela - this is another moot point



When the world is running at a tight supply, ANY disruption of any size is significant. It's basic economics.

When supply is tight and there are disruptions, speculators go crazy to ensure that they get all the oil that they need. A disruption of just a few percent can result in an exponential rise in price as the price of the product is bid up so that buyers can ensure that they get what they need.

It doesn't even have to be a real disruption. It can be a potential problem that is totally in the minds of those individuals (not companies) that control the price of oil on the market.

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Originally posted by JaTo:

4) Speculation is what the price of oil is pretty much hinged upon. Speculators adjust the price that they are willing to pay for oil due to current factors vs. what they feel future factors will be like. Given all of today's factors (summer demand, forumlation changes, political instability, oil supply concerns, etc., etc., etc.), the price has gone UP.


Way to just create another oint using the above points, which I have rebutted.



Rebutted? YOu haven't rebutted anything. There's a different between denial and rebuttal.

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Originally posted by JaTo:

6) Microsoft makes over 60-70% margin on the software products that consumers typically buy. Exxon and other oil companies on a GOOD day with a commodity such as oil or gas usually make single-digit margins (8% at last look). I don't see people in the streets protesting the margins that biotech firms make or the margins that many SW companies make...


Margins are one thing - actual profit is another - not one industry comes close to the profit that Gas companies are creating! This is because gas is sold in such large quatity, compared to a copy of Windows or a bottle of antibiotics!



Margins are not "one thing". They are the thing. They are the definition of gouging. You CANNOT "gouge" with single-digit profit margins; you can't even "gouge" with 50% margins. That very simply means that you're not charging that much more than it costs to produce.

I see you understand how profits are so high -- because the volume of the goods that are sold. When you sell more stuff you make more profit -- to the exact same ratio. So I fail to see how you think that's a problem.

When Exxon was charging 8% margins back when gasoline was $15/barrel and it was struggling to keep itself afloat because 8% of $15 ain't much at all, I didn't see anyone out there trying to help them out. But now that they're charging roughly the same margins when the price of their product is higher they're "gouging" you?

If I buy something for $1.00 and sell it to someone else for $1.08, I am very simply not gouging anybody.

Or is your convoluted logic that $0.08 on a dollar isn't much to make but $8 billion on $100 billion is? Because they're the exact same thing. 8% is 8% is 8%. 8% is low. It's so low that Exxon's stock dived this morning because Wall Street isn't happy with their returns.

What do you want them to do? Lower their margins as their revenues go up? That's about the most retarded thing I've ever heard. Who wants to own shares in a company that makes 1% margins? Lord knows I don't. I can make a several times that return putting my money into Treasury Bonds.

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Originally posted by JaTo:

7) The US has consistently paid some of the cheapest overall prices for gasoline since automobiles came into existance. There is a tax component that is associated with gas that many other countries inflate beyond belief, but that does NOT change the fact that gas has been a VERY cheap commodity for the US over the years.


This although true, does not JUSTIFY the sudden 300% increase in gas over the last 5 years!!! The last time gas went up 300% it took 20 years!



And the fact that oil has gone up 300% in 5 years doesn't justify blaming Big Oil. The market sets the price of oil, not companies. Big Oil might get to benefit from it, but they don't cause it.

If you want to point fingers, point at the speculators that drive the price of oil up $10 when the leader of Iran sneezes too loud.

Quote:

Originally posted by JaTo:

In short, quit swallowing the fetid BS that the media tosses out to further sensationalize a hot-button issue. There's reason for concern about the price of oil and gas, but I'm tired of this lemming-mentality that states oil companies are "fixing" prices and "screwing" the consumer here.

THINK, PEOPLE!!!


Screw you....it's out and out gouging and I hope Congress uncovers it and we get back to sane pricing.

PS which gas company do you work for?





:rollseyes: Go educate yourself on what "price-gouging" is. $8 billion in profit on almost $100 billion in sales, is anything but.

Let's put it another way that might make more sense...

If Exxon-Mobil took all that profit out of a tank of gas, your $3 gallon of gasoline would go down to $2.76. OMG 24 cents! Whatever am I going to do!

PS I don't work for a gas company. I do work for the second largest consumer of diesel fuel though.

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