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[quote=Bicycle commuter
No go. I replaced those parts... I also tried JSmith's dangerous DO NOT TRY THIS test. The starter cranks fine it just won't start.
I guess I'll try an ignition switch and then call it quits. I'm really getting sick of this.
The only components left out of the do not try this test are R6, the ignition switch and the PATS system.
There is a test you can do that will confirm wether PATS is the problem or the ignition switch is the problem by doing this: With the ignition switch electrical connector disconnected use a short piece of wire to short out the sockets with the red and grey/white wires of the connector that is part of the car's wiring. Doing this will make the connection that the switch makes when you turn the key to "start"
According to the haynes manual there should be 5 wires at from the ignition switch. red, green, grey/white, yellow and red/yellow.
Red wire has power from the battery at all times and should have battery voltage.
Green wire goes to the ignition relay which, when energized makes power available to all the circuits related to the engine running including the fuel pump. You can use the wire and make a connection on the conector between red and green and the lights and chimes should come on and if its working the fuel pump should run for 1 to 2 seconds.
Grey/white wire is the wire that sends power to R6 when you turn the key to start
red/yellow is for lighting like the headlights and the hazard flashers, interior lights
Yellow wire goes to the anti-theft/PATS, door ajar warnings, keyless entry, stereo.
I feel sorry for the people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, thats the best they're going to feel all day - former President Lyndon B. Johnson
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Originally posted by LUCA:
I'm so sorry that you are having all this trouble. 
I've been following this thread since the beginning. Each time I check up on your progress I am hoping that I'll find that you got everything straightened out.
You sir have more patience than I do. I would have sent it sailing over a cliff by now.
I hope, as you do, that you get this worked out soon!! My fingers are crossed. 
Thanks! I appreciate that. If I could get it running there have been times when I might have looked for a cliff!
MUST SELL - ECM computer new for a 98 V6 mtx + pats
Now trolling in a Red Nissan 4 x 4
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Originally posted by JSmith:
The only components left out of the do not try this test are R6, the ignition switch and the PATS system.
There is a test you can do that will confirm whether PATS is the problem or the ignition switch is the problem by doing this: With the ignition switch electrical connector disconnected use a short piece of wire to short out the sockets with the red and grey/white wires of the connector that is part of the car's wiring. Doing this will make the connection that the switch makes when you turn the key to "start" NO GO== Makes no sounds. A whole lotta nothing!
According to the haynes manual there should be 5 wires at from the ignition switch. red, green, grey/white, yellow and red/yellow.
Red wire has power from the battery at all times and should have battery voltage. I couldn't get my meter to read this, but I may not have grounded it correctly.
Green wire goes to the ignition relay which, when energized makes power available to all the circuits related to the engine running including the fuel pump. You can use the wire and make a connection on the conector between red and green and the lights and chimes should come on and if its working the fuel pump should run for 1 to 2 seconds. This worked fine, ding ding ding, etc. . I'm still not sure the fuel pump is running, I didn't hear it.
Grey/white wire is the wire that sends power to R6 when you turn the key to start
red/yellow is for lighting like the headlights and the hazard flashers, interior lights
Yellow wire goes to the anti-theft/PATS, door ajar warnings, keyless entry, stereo.
I did the above electrical ignition switch testing. I also replaced the switch with one from a junker.
So am I looking at a PATS problem?
I watched the led as I was trying to start the car, and it never did anything unusual. Just flashed every 2 seconds or so.
If so, does it need to go to a Dealer? Or can an indy do it?
MUST SELL - ECM computer new for a 98 V6 mtx + pats
Now trolling in a Red Nissan 4 x 4
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I remember when I had keys made for my Contour I didn't know about the PATS and the keys weren't programmed into the system. I went to start the car and the starter cranked the engine but it never fired up. The PATS disables the ignition and/or the fuel.
The fuel pump can be hard to hear. It only runs one to two seconds, not very long and the sound of the chimes inside the car can drown it out. Some are quieter than others depending mostly on how much fuel is in the tank and the condition of the pump. If the tank is full the fuel will prevent the tank from vibrating with the motor and it will sound quieter. This auto-run of the fuel pump for a second or so when you turn the key is supposed to work every time you turn the key on, but you need to wait a little bit before trying it again so the system can reset.
If using a jumper wire from the red wire to the grey/white on the connector to the ignition switch and nothing happened then that means that the problem, what ever it is, lies between the ignition switch and R6. The only thing in the grey/white wire between the ignition switch and R6 is the starter relay diode. Test the positive and negative circuits between the ignition switch and R6 like this. (1) Check the resistance on the socket that pin 1 of R6 fits into and the negative battery cable. (2) make sure you remember how it came out and remove the starter relay diode and put a jumper in its place, remove the connector from the ignition switch and check the resistance between the socket on the ignition switch connector for the grey/white wire and the socket that pin 2 of R6 fits into.
If you made the connection between the red and green wires and you had dash lights and you heard some chimes going when you did then that means that the red wire indeed has battery power going to it.
From what I gather from reading the wiring schematics there are no electronic control units (computers) involved in the starter circuit.
The fuel pump circuitry, It would be about a whole page to list all the things that are involved in the operation of the fuel pump, not to mention that 2 computers are also involved in it, the PCU and the ECU. Here's a list of the circuit controls in the system there are, relays: R16, R11, R8; Fuses: 1,2,4,9,10,14 and 30.
I feel sorry for the people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, thats the best they're going to feel all day - former President Lyndon B. Johnson
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I might have an easy way to check if the fuel pump is working. Turn on ignition switch then under the hood, locate the schrader valve on the fuel rail. It looks like tire valve stem but chrome plated. If the fuel pump is working, you'll get a shot of pressurized gas as you dpressed the valve. Only do this for a split second as you don't want a fire hazard.
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Originally posted by Mustang:
I might have an easy way to check if the fuel pump is working. Turn on ignition switch then under the hood, locate the schrader valve on the fuel rail. It looks like tire valve stem but chrome plated. If the fuel pump is working, you'll get a shot of pressurized gas as you dpressed the valve. Only do this for a split second as you don't want a fire hazard.
wouldn't you be better off connecting a fuel pressure gage in that case then 
- 95 Mystique LS - Zetec/5spd
- 99 Contour SeVT Sport - Duratec/5spd
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Originally posted by BrApple:
Originally posted by Mustang:
I might have an easy way to check if the fuel pump is working. Turn on ignition switch then under the hood, locate the schrader valve on the fuel rail. It looks like tire valve stem but chrome plated. If the fuel pump is working, you'll get a shot of pressurized gas as you dpressed the valve. Only do this for a split second as you don't want a fire hazard.
wouldn't you be better off connecting a fuel pressure gage in that case then
I'm sure the pressure gauge would be best. But I think that Mustang realized that I'm a n00b and most likely wouldn't have access to a fuel pressure gauge and wouldn't know what to do with it anyway.
MUST SELL - ECM computer new for a 98 V6 mtx + pats
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Originally posted by Bicycle commuter :
Originally posted by BrApple:
Originally posted by Mustang:
I might have an easy way to check if the fuel pump is working. Turn on ignition switch then under the hood, locate the schrader valve on the fuel rail. It looks like tire valve stem but chrome plated. If the fuel pump is working, you'll get a shot of pressurized gas as you dpressed the valve. Only do this for a split second as you don't want a fire hazard.
wouldn't you be better off connecting a fuel pressure gage in that case then
I'm sure the pressure gauge would be best. But I think that Mustang realized that I'm a n00b and most likely wouldn't have access to a fuel pressure gauge and wouldn't know what to do with it anyway.
Well I give up. We are having the car towed to a mechanic's that we know, he has worked on it before (too much...). He seems to think that maybe I knocked something loose when I was trying to fix the CEL, the thing that started all of this.
We'll see what he says. He says that he doubts it is PATS but if it is a FORD dealer needs to do the work.
Thanks for all of the help and suggestions. I have really tried on this. I will let you know what he finds. JSmith has been AWESOME! Thanks so much.
MUST SELL - ECM computer new for a 98 V6 mtx + pats
Now trolling in a Red Nissan 4 x 4
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good luck with the car, hope to see it at the next meet!
#0009
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Originally posted by Bicycle commuter :
Originally posted by BrApple:
Originally posted by Mustang:
I might have an easy way to check if the fuel pump is working. Turn on ignition switch then under the hood, locate the schrader valve on the fuel rail. It looks like tire valve stem but chrome plated. If the fuel pump is working, you'll get a shot of pressurized gas as you dpressed the valve. Only do this for a split second as you don't want a fire hazard.
wouldn't you be better off connecting a fuel pressure gage in that case then
I'm sure the pressure gauge would be best. But I think that Mustang realized that I'm a n00b and most likely wouldn't have access to a fuel pressure gauge and wouldn't know what to do with it anyway.
After all you've been through, not exactly a noob by any means! You got a ton on good advise and followed through admirably Good luck and I hope it get fixed
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