Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Branches New England Can anyone help me?

I'm sorry to be so confusing.

I didn't completely read Bill J's post. I was seeing things at the time. I was having visions of Capt'n Morgan dancing in my head.

R6 clicking does mean that the start position of the ignition switch is good and the wiring leading to R6 is good. What we don't know is the condition of the wiring between R6 and the starter, and the condition of the contacts inside the relay that allow power to flow from the battery, through the relay and to the starter. Checking the voltage at the smaller wire on the starter will hopefully establish an answer and narrow the search.

So that being said, should I go get another relay? I did just pull it a few times while testing (Prior to last night). Just not thinking.

I did test the small wire as my wife was turning the key to try and start the car. Nada. What does that mean? I forgot to do ElKy's ohm test.

Anyone have any ideas what I should test next?

Should I be ordering a replacement Neutral/ clutch switch? New R6 relay? Testing/ replacing the ignition switch? What about PATS? Pop starting it and taking it to the mechanics? (If it will run even then, which I'm not sure of).

Sorry if I sound frustrated, but I am a little. Not at you guys, just at the car and the situation. Luckily the weather was nice for my bike commute this morning.

Thanks again.

ok if there is no current to the little wire when the key is turned to start, but R6 is clicking, then it is a wiring issue form R6 to the starter solenoid.
did you clean the end of the wire before you put it back on the starter?
can you trace the wire back to where it originates?

as jay said, check the contacts where the relay plugs in.

maybe the output wire from the relay is crap.

I did the best that I could to clean the wires to the starter before reinstalling them, but it is tight in there. I tried to get any crap off with a little wire brush and I coated the end with dielectric grease.

I remembered something else.... Tell me if this might be related.

Before (obviously) if I drove somewhere, then parked ran in and back out quickly and restarted the car, there would be a weird smell in the compartment for a minute or two. Didn't smell like anything burning, just something hot or something... I'm not sure how to describe it.

I will try to follow the wire from the fuse box to the starter. What am I looking for? Exposed wires, melting, etc?

Thanks again.

really?
yeah, if you can find some melted wires or anything thats a great place to start.

I just spent the last 30 min. studying the wiring diagrams in my haynes manual. There are 2 components in the fuse boxes that I have overlooked. They are Diodes which are solid state electronics (no moving parts) that allow power to flow only one way. They usually don't fail but when they do its instantly and without any warning at all.

To test the diodes... They will look like a a small relay. They have a diagram on them that looks like 2 arrows point at eachother with a line between the points of the arrows. Take them out, they come out like fuses. They have 2 pins on them. take your meter set to check resistance. Touch one prong of the meter to one pin of the diode, touch the other prong of the meter to the other pin of the diode. Then reverse where you put the prongs of the meter. One way you ahould have a low resistance, the other way should have a very high resistance. If you don't then it is dead.

how to find them.

Check Fuses 1 and 10, both are in the auxilary fuse box under the hood.

Check the starter relay diode in the fuse box under the hood. Its located right under a line of 4 fuses.

Check fuse 30 in the fuse box inside the car.

Check the ignition relay diode in the fuse box in the car. Its on the bottom between the alligator thing and the rows of fuses.

Also, if you said there was a smell, then look for wires that look different with dark spots on them or spots with the insulation bubbled up or even missing.

Check the small wire at the starter for resistance. Here's how to do it. Pull out R6, look at the bottom of it where all the pins are, there should be 4 of them and they should have numbers on the case next to them, 1,2,5 and 3. On the socket in the fuse box that pin 5 would go into put one end of the resistance meter on there, don't press it in or it might mess up the socket so just touch the meter to it, put the other wire of the meter onto the end of the small wire on the starter. (Take this wire off th starter first or the meter will also be trying to read the resistance of the solenoid and give you an erronous reading) The resistance should be very low.

While you have R6 removed use your voltage meter to check for voltage in the socket that pin 3 of R6 fits into. There should be battery voltage there all the time. This is where the relay gets the power from to send to the starter when R6 gets input from the ignition switch when you turn the key to start.

you can do this. Disconnect the battery. Leave the small wire on the starter disconnected, leave R6 out. Take a short peice of wire and short out the sockets in the fuse box that pins 5 and 3 of R6 fit into. This will make the connection that R6 makes to send power to the starter. Take your resisitance meter and put one end on the potitive battery cable terminal and put the other end of the meter onto the end of the small wire that attaches to the starter. The resistance should be low. This will test the condition of the wiring from the battery, through the fuse box and to the starter.

The very dangerous way to test this (DO NOT DO THIS) is with the transmission in neutral, the clutch pedal on the floor and the parking brake on, hook up the small wire to the starter, hook up the battery and use the jumper wire in the sockets of the fuse box for R6 like I said earlier. This should get the starter to crank the engine. What that is doing is bypassing the ignition switch, bypassing all the safety features

J,

WOW THANKS ! I REALLY appreciate all the time and effort you have put into this! The CEG ROCKS especially NECEG!

I have whittled myself out some time tonight to work on this. I will try what you say.

On the dangerous testing method, what is the danger? Killing the new starter?

I will do some visual checking for any messed up wiring as well. That smell thing on quick restarts has been going on for a while. I didn't worry about it much since it always started right up, I figured the starter just got a little hotter than normal since it just got worked twice in a short amount of time... But now I'm not sure that makes any sense. Must have been an early symptom...

I am running out of time to fix this on my own. My wife has been super patient and all (since some days I steal her van, and others she has to drop me off and pick me up) but she is now thinking that I just don't have the proper diagnostic tools and experience. There is a little indy shop that I can probably push the car to, she thinks we should pay them to diagnose the car, and take what he says is wrong and then I can fix it. She figured all the good citizens of the CEG could tell me what parts of his diagnosis are BS and what is not.

Thanks again! Everyone has been really helpful and patient, and I do appreciate it. I will return and report.