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Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Mmmm I guess the laws of nature don't apply. 
it's not that they don't apply, it's just that you apparently aren't fully versed in them. 
02 Mustang GT... Tuned by Nelsons. Low 12's, anyone? 
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Originally posted by MxRacer:
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Mmmm I guess the laws of nature don't apply.
it's not that they don't apply, it's just that you apparently aren't fully versed in them.
Ever see a river freeze? The water underneath continues to move right? How does it do that? Because the surface water temperature is below the freezing point while the water below the ice is warmer. As the water below the ice cools(still moving) it adds thickness. If it's shallow like a creek it will freeze solid. The freezing point of fresh water is 32 degrees moving or not.
Sorry OP I was just having fun with you, no threadjack intended.
99 Contour Sport SE MTX
KKM filter, B&M shifter
No res, BAT kit
Green car silver hood (because silver is faster)
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Looks like a good cold time Brett.   Glad you decided to still have some fun.
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Could be supercooled water. Just add salt and it lowers the freezing point of it. Why do you think they salt the roads when it snows.
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Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Originally posted by MxRacer:
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Mmmm I guess the laws of nature don't apply.
it's not that they don't apply, it's just that you apparently aren't fully versed in them.
Ever see a river freeze? The water underneath continues to move right? How does it do that? Because the surface water temperature is below the freezing point while the water below the ice is warmer. As the water below the ice cools(still moving) it adds thickness. If it's shallow like a creek it will freeze solid. The freezing point of fresh water is 32 degrees moving or not.
Sorry OP I was just having fun with you, no threadjack intended.
nifty. think the river freezes within five hours? nope. think the river would freeze if one spot if someone was constantly jumping into it? nope. now how about you leave the friggin dudes thread alone. how about that?
02 Mustang GT... Tuned by Nelsons. Low 12's, anyone?
.....______
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.\_/...............\_/
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Originally posted by MxRacer:
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Originally posted by MxRacer:
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Mmmm I guess the laws of nature don't apply.
it's not that they don't apply, it's just that you apparently aren't fully versed in them.
Ever see a river freeze? The water underneath continues to move right? How does it do that? Because the surface water temperature is below the freezing point while the water below the ice is warmer. As the water below the ice cools(still moving) it adds thickness. If it's shallow like a creek it will freeze solid. The freezing point of fresh water is 32 degrees moving or not.
Sorry OP I was just having fun with you, no threadjack intended.
nifty. think the river freezes within five hours? nope. think the river would freeze if one spot if someone was constantly jumping into it? nope. now how about you leave the friggin dudes thread alone. how about that?
Because it's obvious you don't get it?
99 Contour Sport SE MTX
KKM filter, B&M shifter
No res, BAT kit
Green car silver hood (because silver is faster)
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Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Originally posted by MxRacer:
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Originally posted by MxRacer:
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Mmmm I guess the laws of nature don't apply.
it's not that they don't apply, it's just that you apparently aren't fully versed in them.
Ever see a river freeze? The water underneath continues to move right? How does it do that? Because the surface water temperature is below the freezing point while the water below the ice is warmer. As the water below the ice cools(still moving) it adds thickness. If it's shallow like a creek it will freeze solid. The freezing point of fresh water is 32 degrees moving or not.
Sorry OP I was just having fun with you, no threadjack intended.
nifty. think the river freezes within five hours? nope. think the river would freeze if one spot if someone was constantly jumping into it? nope. now how about you leave the friggin dudes thread alone. how about that?
Because it's obvious you don't get it?
I disagree. Fresh water can be below 32 degrees F and not freeze.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/sep99/937265175.Es.r.html
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/gen01/gen01243.htm
http://www.admin.mtu.edu/urel/news/media_relations/392/
Semper Fi
"They've got us surrounded. Poor bastards." -Chesty
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Effectively *Trapp*ing the arguement? bwahaha  Ok that was lame, I know. It's 230 am
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Originally posted by Trapps:
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Originally posted by MxRacer:
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Originally posted by MxRacer:
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Mmmm I guess the laws of nature don't apply.
it's not that they don't apply, it's just that you apparently aren't fully versed in them.
Ever see a river freeze? The water underneath continues to move right? How does it do that? Because the surface water temperature is below the freezing point while the water below the ice is warmer. As the water below the ice cools(still moving) it adds thickness. If it's shallow like a creek it will freeze solid. The freezing point of fresh water is 32 degrees moving or not.
Sorry OP I was just having fun with you, no threadjack intended.
nifty. think the river freezes within five hours? nope. think the river would freeze if one spot if someone was constantly jumping into it? nope. now how about you leave the friggin dudes thread alone. how about that?
Because it's obvious you don't get it?
I disagree. Fresh water can be below 32 degrees F and not freeze.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/sep99/937265175.Es.r.html
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/gen01/gen01243.htm
http://www.admin.mtu.edu/urel/news/media_relations/392/
From link one.
Quote:
Thanks for the question. The answer is definitely yes, water that is not salty
can be colder than 32 degrees F or 0 degrees Celsius and not freeze.
One way this could happen is if there is something besides salt dissolved in the
water. Many different substances will lower or depress the freezing point.
Gases like the carbon dioxide in soda pop could do it, liquids like ethylene
glycol (antifreeze) could do it, or solids that dissolve like sugar could do it.
Another way this could happen is by super cooling. If the water is very clean
and is not agitated or disturbed it can cool well below the normal freezing
point without freezing. However, if the water is disturbed or if particles like
dust or sand is added to the water then it rapidly freezes. Super cooled water
can occur as small floating droplets in clouds and will turn to ice when
disturbed by an airplane flying through the clouds. This causes dangerous icing
to occur on the airplane's wings.
From link two.
Quote:
Water freezes at 32 Degrees, though this can be lowered if it were a mixture
(like anti-freeze or salt solution).
Quote:
In its
liquid state, water has a minimum temperature of about 32 degrees Fahrenheit, and
a maximum temperature of about 212 degrees Fahrenheit. Pressure and
impurities
(such as salt) affect these temperatures.
From link three.
Quote:
In fact, if you were to suspend a drop of pure water in the air, out of contact with any surface, you'd have to chill it to about minus 35 Celsius, or 37 below zero Fahrenheit, before it would turn to ice.(note from RT:the shape and size of this drop are key to it not freezing. A larger volume of water would because of it's weight be unable to maintain this shape and thus freeze at a higher temp) Fortunately for hockey players and purveyors of snow shovels, everyday water is not pure and is almost always touching a surface of some sort. But it does raise an interesting question: Why does water behave so strangely?
"Water is hard to freeze because it's kind of unruly," says Cantrell. "Trying to convince it to organize into a crystal can be really difficult."
On most surfaces, from dust to pavement, water crystallizes into ice with the same predictability that caused us all to miscalculate its freezing point. Cantrell is investigating what properties a surface must have to raise water's freezing point that high.
Supercooled water is(for the most part) an atmospheric condition and without adding more special circumstances my earlier statement stands.
99 Contour Sport SE MTX
KKM filter, B&M shifter
No res, BAT kit
Green car silver hood (because silver is faster)
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Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Originally posted by Trapps:
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Originally posted by MxRacer:
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Originally posted by MxRacer:
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Mmmm I guess the laws of nature don't apply.
it's not that they don't apply, it's just that you apparently aren't fully versed in them.
Ever see a river freeze? The water underneath continues to move right? How does it do that? Because the surface water temperature is below the freezing point while the water below the ice is warmer. As the water below the ice cools(still moving) it adds thickness. If it's shallow like a creek it will freeze solid. The freezing point of fresh water is 32 degrees moving or not.
Sorry OP I was just having fun with you, no threadjack intended.
nifty. think the river freezes within five hours? nope. think the river would freeze if one spot if someone was constantly jumping into it? nope. now how about you leave the friggin dudes thread alone. how about that?
Because it's obvious you don't get it?
I disagree. Fresh water can be below 32 degrees F and not freeze.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/sep99/937265175.Es.r.html
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/gen01/gen01243.htm
http://www.admin.mtu.edu/urel/news/media_relations/392/
From link one.
Quote:
Thanks for the question. The answer is definitely yes, water that is not salty
can be colder than 32 degrees F or 0 degrees Celsius and not freeze.
One way this could happen is if there is something besides salt dissolved in the
water. Many different substances will lower or depress the freezing point.
Gases like the carbon dioxide in soda pop could do it, liquids like ethylene
glycol (antifreeze) could do it, or solids that dissolve like sugar could do it.
Another way this could happen is by super cooling. If the water is very clean
and is not agitated or disturbed it can cool well below the normal freezing
point without freezing. However, if the water is disturbed or if particles like
dust or sand is added to the water then it rapidly freezes. Super cooled water
can occur as small floating droplets in clouds and will turn to ice when
disturbed by an airplane flying through the clouds. This causes dangerous icing
to occur on the airplane's wings.
From link two.
Quote:
Water freezes at 32 Degrees, though this can be lowered if it were a mixture
(like anti-freeze or salt solution).
Quote:
In its
liquid state, water has a minimum temperature of about 32 degrees Fahrenheit, and
a maximum temperature of about 212 degrees Fahrenheit. Pressure and
impurities
(such as salt) affect these temperatures.
From link three.
Quote:
In fact, if you were to suspend a drop of pure water in the air, out of contact with any surface, you'd have to chill it to about minus 35 Celsius, or 37 below zero Fahrenheit, before it would turn to ice.(note from RT:the shape and size of this drop are key to it not freezing. A larger volume of water would because of it's weight be unable to maintain this shape and thus freeze at a higher temp) Fortunately for hockey players and purveyors of snow shovels, everyday water is not pure and is almost always touching a surface of some sort. But it does raise an interesting question: Why does water behave so strangely?
"Water is hard to freeze because it's kind of unruly," says Cantrell. "Trying to convince it to organize into a crystal can be really difficult."
On most surfaces, from dust to pavement, water crystallizes into ice with the same predictability that caused us all to miscalculate its freezing point. Cantrell is investigating what properties a surface must have to raise water's freezing point that high.
Supercooled water is(for the most part) an atmospheric condition and without adding more special circumstances my earlier statement stands.
Skiers/snowboarders would not denote special circumstances. Your earlier statement summarized as "the water looks to fluid to be 10F" is probable. However, your claim that "The freezing point of fresh water is 32 degrees moving or not.
" appears to be true in some instances, it is not true in all circumstances. Again refer to reference #1 "If the water is very clean and is not agitated or disturbed it can cool well below the normal freezing point without freezing." The water in the picture does appear to have been disturbed (again with the skiers and snowboarders) and does not look very clean (clean = free of contaminates). Therefore the water could be below 32F and still in a liquid state.
Last edited by Trapps; 03/27/06 06:50 PM.
Semper Fi
"They've got us surrounded. Poor bastards." -Chesty
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