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Originally posted by Kokopellian:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by Kokopellian:
With that said. It's wild to me is that we Americans are so quick to judge and point fingers at other countries histories (The Holocaust), but we conveniently "forget" our own stink.
That's the thing ain't it. It's HISTORY. As in, 'in the past'. I think it is not only right, but our duty to do what we can to point out abuses that are happening NOW. Yes, we've had our transgressions, but that does not mean we should turn a blind eye when such things continue to happen elsewhere in the world.
Forget your history, forget your past, forget where you come from..... You won't know where you're going.
Focus on the future here and now, sure.... however, history is what defines us. We learn from our mistakes, transgressions, and accomplishments all the same. Our history is the main reason race relations are what they are today.
I know very well to remember history. I'm not saying we should discount it at all. I was referencing your post that you find it 'wild' that we judge other countries, but forget our own transgressions. I, for one, do not forget. Also, I do not judge other countries based on their HISTORY unless they allow heinous practices from the past to continue today. Killing of female children in India, slaughtering of people in Africa, beheading of innocents in the middle east. That stuff is happening TODAY. Just because we have our own checkered past would not be justification for ignoring the events I have cited. They must be addressed where-ever & when-ever they are encountered. Our nation, having been through similar, can be a guiding beacon for the rest of humanity. We've walked the path on some of these issues, why not show others the way?
We've learned our lessons well in this country - and in a relatively short period of time as nation building goes. We continue to learn, & I think that the Bill Cosby arguement that black American culture is holding back the black community has as much relavence as the suggestion that various forms of racism continue here. Yes, racial attitudes of the past may continue to influence thinking to some degree in todays world, but there is something to be said for personal ambition and wanting to take part in building the nation you seek. In fact, I would suggest the attitude of many black leaders serves to strengthen a sort of self imposed segregation as well as intensify racial animosity. Dr King had it right, I think. His great vision & message has since been perverted and/or distorted.
Celebrate your heritage, as I celebrate my own, and I will even celebrate with you, but let us BOTH be American FIRST and do what we can to make our nation great.
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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TourDeForce for President. 
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Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by Kokopellian:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by Kokopellian:
With that said. It's wild to me is that we Americans are so quick to judge and point fingers at other countries histories (The Holocaust), but we conveniently "forget" our own stink.
That's the thing ain't it. It's HISTORY. As in, 'in the past'. I think it is not only right, but our duty to do what we can to point out abuses that are happening NOW. Yes, we've had our transgressions, but that does not mean we should turn a blind eye when such things continue to happen elsewhere in the world.
Forget your history, forget your past, forget where you come from..... You won't know where you're going.
Focus on the future here and now, sure.... however, history is what defines us. We learn from our mistakes, transgressions, and accomplishments all the same. Our history is the main reason race relations are what they are today.
I know very well to remember history. I'm not saying we should discount it at all. I was referencing your post that you find it 'wild' that we judge other countries, but forget our own transgressions. I, for one, do not forget. Also, I do not judge other countries based on their HISTORY unless they allow heinous practices from the past to continue today. Killing of female children in India, slaughtering of people in Africa, beheading of innocents in the middle east. That stuff is happening TODAY. Just because we have our own checkered past would not be justification for ignoring the events I have cited. They must be addressed where-ever & when-ever they are encountered. Our nation, having been through similar, can be a guiding beacon for the rest of humanity. We've walked the path on some of these issues, why not show others the way?
We've learned our lessons well in this country - and in a relatively short period of time as nation building goes. We continue to learn, & I think that the Bill Cosby arguement that black American culture is holding back the black community has as much relavence as the suggestion that various forms of racism continue here. Yes, racial attitudes of the past may continue to influence thinking to some degree in todays world, but there is something to be said for personal ambition and wanting to take part in building the nation you seek. In fact, I would suggest the attitude of many black leaders serves to strengthen a sort of self imposed segregation as well as intensify racial animosity. Dr King had it right, I think. His great vision & message has since been perverted and/or distorted.
Celebrate your heritage, as I celebrate my own, and I will even celebrate with you, but let us BOTH be American FIRST and do what we can to make our nation great.
Bravo! That's great commentary there Tour. Really it is and I appreciate your addition to this thread. Sadly your ideology isn't in the majority though I'm sure you know that. Sure you remember the past, I didn't say you didn't. However, once again, you're in the minority. Take any average American on the street and they will berate and point fingers at almost every other country about what they do before they do ours. That's a fact. We act as if our stuff doesn't stink at times. And that is where the forgotten history comes in. We remember all of our great accolades as a whole, but the trash is sometimes pushed aside and ignored altogether.
I'm all for helping other nations. No one said we have to ignore them. Although we go about it wrong sometimes. I am a big believer in helping others when they ask for it. Lots of things around the world need to be addressed true enough, but we can't come to the rescue of everyone.
Unfortunately the attitudes and "leadership" of many of the dominant black leaders today is weak at best. I can't and won't follow Jackson, Sharpton, T.D. Jakes, Farrakhan, and a host of others because they are what I call "Pimps of the People." You're right, King's dream has been twisted and it's quite sad. I believe in his dream although I am tried and fail sometimes I continue along the path. I agreed with Cosby as well. Although, I think he could have delivered his message more responsibly.
Personal ambition and accountability indeed help individuals take part in strengthening and building our nation to greatness. It's a sound ideology, but not dominant unfortunately. It takes a strong person to stand up for those traits when someone spits in their face, holds them down because of race, and affects the quality of their life and the lives of their family.
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Originally posted by Kokopellian:
Our history is the main reason race relations are what they are today.
Human nature is why our race relations are the way they are. Every country in the world has the same issues, only ours are more known because we are a more open and 'accepting' society. Racism will never go away completely.
Ryan
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Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Originally posted by Kokopellian:
Our history is the main reason race relations are what they are today.
Human nature is why our race relations are the way they are. Every country in the world has the same issues, only ours are more known because we are a more open and 'accepting' society. Racism will never go away completely.
Saying that is like saying that humans are inherently evil. I don't believe that. And no, other countries do not have the same issues on the same scale that we have. In England I was amazed to see mixed-race family commercials! There was one on t.v. where a black husband kissed his white wife and their mixed kids were sitting at the breakfast table! You DON'T see that here.
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Originally posted by Kokopellian:
Saying that is like saying that humans are inherently evil. I don't believe that. And no, other countries do not have the same issues on the same scale that we have. In England I was amazed to see mixed-race family commercials! There was one on t.v. where a black husband kissed his white wife and their mixed kids were sitting at the breakfast table! You DON'T see that here.
Yeah but you do see far more racism against muslims in England. Like RTStabler said, other countries are about the same.
Though I do think not LETTING GO of the past is part of the problems, but the history is definetly not the only reason there is discrimination.
People are inherently evil, just some more so than others. 
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Originally posted by Kokopellian:
What good is a scholarship/education if a company won't hire you because of your color?
Yeah, it does suck.
No good, but it's still discrimination.
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Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Racism will never go away completely.
you obviously dont watch Star Trek 
Originally posted by Kokopellian:
In England I was amazed to see mixed-race family commercials! There was one on t.v. where a black husband kissed his white wife and their mixed kids were sitting at the breakfast table! You DON'T see that here.
thats nuts. i never really thought about anything like that before. then again, its "shocking" to see kids in wheelchairs and walkers in Toys R Us ads.  
Originally posted by Blazing Saddles:
ok, we'll take the n*ggers and the ch*nks, but NO irish!
Originally posted by Tourgasm:
Sometimes you can mess up a word so bad that spell check doens't know what the hell you're talking about.
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Originally posted by Kokopellian:
Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Originally posted by Kokopellian:
Our history is the main reason race relations are what they are today.
Human nature is why our race relations are the way they are. Every country in the world has the same issues, only ours are more known because we are a more open and 'accepting' society. Racism will never go away completely.
Saying that is like saying that humans are inherently evil. I don't believe that. And no, other countries do not have the same issues on the same scale that we have. In England I was amazed to see mixed-race family commercials! There was one on t.v. where a black husband kissed his white wife and their mixed kids were sitting at the breakfast table! You DON'T see that here.
You don't have to believe it, but its true. What about serial killers who lead normal lives? We all have our stereotypes about on another and they will never go away. Africa internally is one of the worst at this racism thing, only its called tribalism. Its a huge reason why Africa will never become civlized in the near future.
Ryan
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Originally posted by SVTfrog:
Originally posted by Kokopellian:
Saying that is like saying that humans are inherently evil. I don't believe that. And no, other countries do not have the same issues on the same scale that we have. In England I was amazed to see mixed-race family commercials! There was one on t.v. where a black husband kissed his white wife and their mixed kids were sitting at the breakfast table! You DON'T see that here.
Yeah but you do see far more racism against muslims in England. Like RTStabler said, other countries are about the same.
Though I do think not LETTING GO of the past is part of the problems, but the history is definetly not the only reason there is discrimination.
People are inherently evil, just some more so than others.
I've been to England many times extensively. My wife is from there. The racism towards Muslims is not as prevalent as the racism against minorities here. It doesn't measure up to what we have going on here. But then again, England has been around longer and they seem more tolerant as a country but that's just my opinion from my observations.
Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Originally posted by Kokopellian:
Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Originally posted by Kokopellian:
Our history is the main reason race relations are what they are today.
Human nature is why our race relations are the way they are. Every country in the world has the same issues, only ours are more known because we are a more open and 'accepting' society. Racism will never go away completely.
Saying that is like saying that humans are inherently evil. I don't believe that. And no, other countries do not have the same issues on the same scale that we have. In England I was amazed to see mixed-race family commercials! There was one on t.v. where a black husband kissed his white wife and their mixed kids were sitting at the breakfast table! You DON'T see that here.
You don't have to believe it, but its true. What about serial killers who lead normal lives? We all have our stereotypes about on another and they will never go away. Africa internally is one of the worst at this racism thing, only its called tribalism. Its a huge reason why Africa will never become civlized in the near future.
Wow Ryan. You really have a seriously pessimistic view of the world. I believe people are inherently good by nature. Serial killers are not the norm. Tribalism and Racism are not the same by any means. I'm married to a woman of African descent and her mother is straight out of Ghana. She explained it to me first hand. In a nut shell it's like gang wars but on a historic kinda level. And maybe Africa won't come around in your lifetime. But they were once the center of the world culturally and economically. They will come around one day. Once again, optimism.....
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