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He recommends Ford Honey. Preferably without added friction modifier. Add 2 oz of Ford Friction Modifier on an as needed basis.
I know this works as that is what I have in my car at the moment (with friction modifier). I'm continuing to look for reasonable alternatives that don't cost $20.00 a quart.
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited
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Joined: May 2000
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I have no life
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I have no life
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'There have been no complaints about many others, such as Royal Purple, Pennzoil, Torco, and Specialty Formulations. ..... .....and no lab tests to compare them with Ford fluid either.....!!!!!
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Here we go again.
How is a lab report comparing it to Ford Honey going to help? The lab report came back showing that Red Line MTL was "more of a gear oil".
During the everlasting thread Royal Purple changed their recommended fluid for the MTX-75 from a GL4 gear oil to synthetic motor oil. Even if that is Royal Purple's recommendation, I can't bring myself to use engine oil in a trans.
I did my own research and found that when the appropriate additives are used, there is no harm (in fact, a benefit) in using GL4 or even an appropriate GL5 fluid in a trans that may not need it. The additives that elevate it into GL4 or GL5 territory don't have to be the ones that lead to break down.
I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying that Ford Honey (or the Castrol equilevant that is not available in the US) is the only fluid for this trans. I'm also reasonably sure that it may not even be the best. I will grant that it has been an excellent product in my own car, but it is not worth $20.00 a quart.
Don't forget that Ford speced Mercon ATF for this trans for SEVERAL YEARS.
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
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'Gear Oil Bunk'
The constant reference to 'gear oil' with the MTX75 is a myth.The first consideration of what type of lube a trans/gears need is dependant firstly on one thing,the gear 'cut'.That is the type and angle the gear teeth are cut at.In the 'stoc' unmodded MTX75 there are only two types of gear cut,helical on all the gears and straight cut bevel on the diff gears.The selection of a lube is based on the cut which in turn tells you the amount of tooth to tooth load/pressure.The gear cut that has the lowest tooth to tooth load is the helical cut,as in the MTX75.If you have a Torsen or Quaife diff the gears in that type of diff are also helical cut so you have removed the higher tooth pressure straight cut gears found in a stock diff .From lowest tooth pressure to highest the cuts go Low> Helical/ Semi-Helical/Straight/Hypoid>Highest. The MTX75 does not need lubes for high tooth pressure so why the hang up on 'gear lube'? An automatic trans has 'gears' and most all are helical cut gears!!!! For the sake of history almost all manual transmissions,the gearbox not the rear end,have for many years used normal straight or multi-grade engine oils.If you re read the lab info on Ford honey you will see that its base is a synth,multi-grade diesel engine oil....this alone tells you the type of lube an MTX needs.Why 'diesel'?....Because diesel engine oils have high resistance to oxide formation and high detergent propities.....both of which an MTX75 needs.Get off the 'gear oil' hype ,an MTX does not need 'gear oils' and the main reason ATF was deleted was due to its effect on the shift fork bushes....making them tight on the shafts.The only place for true 'gear oils' is in transmission with high tooth loads which are set buy the cut of the teeth,as an example check the lube that should be used in a Quaife 'straight cut' gearset.Bottom line....forget the 'gear lube' bunk spouted around.....A close lube would be a synth ,multi-grade diesel engine oil!!!!
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693
Hard-core CEG'er
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I'm not going to go through this again. It was discussed ad nausium during the "everlasting thread".
Yes, the cut of the gear makes a difference on how much pressure the gear teeth are subjected to. The most severe is hypoid gears, which the MTX75 doesn't have.
But as I said before, using the correct EP (extreme pressure) additives does not harm the lubricant and provides better protection.
Differential gear oil is seldom appropriate for manual transmissions. It is the overall characteristics of the fluid that must be kept in balance.
If a vendor can provide a full synthetic that has the characteristics you described plus they can build in better gear load protection and improved friction modification in a package that is intended for manual transmission use and costs less than Ford Honey, why not use it?
So tell me, what full synthetic heavy duty diesel engine oil is priced at $20.00 a quart? If it is so critical to use Ford Honey, why doesn't Ford allow others to supply it? Also, why was ordinary ATF considered OK for several years?
I started this thread to show that there is another alternative. Still other alternatives include Torco and Specialty Formulations, and I actually feel that either of these would be an improvement over Ford Honey.
This will be my last post on this thread.
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
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All any supplier has to do is submit lube to Ford with proven test results that show that it meets spec...WSD-M2C200-C......none have bothered!
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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I googled the spec and look what Royal Purple recommends ... surprisingly, it's NOT Synchromax ... it's straight 10W40 motor oil???
http://www.royalpurple.com/techa/tranxref.html
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We know this. It's actually up to you what to run.
Todd
The website was updated and should read Synchromax or RP 10w40/ Racing 41. We are giving you an option.
Apparently the person doing the update did not understand and removed Synchromax as the recommended fluid.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Looks like the site was never changed though.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
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From TH
....ENGINE OIL!....is what Amsoil spec for the MTX!!
www.amsoil.com/storefront/afl.aspx
So 2 suppliers spec an engine oil...well no s**t! A synth engine oil is the base for honey, well well....no gear oil
huh!!!!
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 254
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
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I have been researching the ATF4 for my dodge truck and from what I found the Amsoil ATF has been used successfully in the dodge automatic transmission meeting their ATF4 spec. I just took a quick look at the specs at the bottom of the page for the 5W-40 Amsoil and the ATF and they have very different Kinematic Viscosities. Does this mean anything you tell me I really don't know? But from what I have read there are a lot of, or special friction modifiers in the ATF4 lubricants. Both my cars had the original ATF changed in the first 5000 miles to mobil1 trans fluid with no friction modifier it was then changed out around 70000 miles for redline. There was a little easier shifts in the cold with the redline. I will probably change the fluid in one of the cars soon and I will report if I find anything unusual. But I really don't know what fluid to change to. Something interesting to think about Honda Specs synthetic motor oil for their manual transmission.
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