Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums General Common Interests Iran Threatens U.S. With 'Harm and Pain'

Originally posted by ODC:

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Originally posted by RTStabler51:

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What Canadians don't realize and/or admit is that they are who they are because of the United States.

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Inferiority complex much ?

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Originally posted by tiv:

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The murder rate (homicides per 100,000 population) is:

6.8 (1997 data) in the United States (20.3 in large cities)
2.8 (2004 data) in Saudi Arabia
6.2 (1997 data) in Pakistan

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LMAO!!!

"Official" crime stats from both countries are almost laughable. Saudi Arabia is WELL-KNOWN for their skewing of any and everything that puts them in a bad light and Pakistan is only marginally better at this, especially if the ISI is involved in any way, shape or form in producing these stats. It's true that the severity of punishment in Saudi serves as a detrement to those looking to partake in violent crime, but that doesn't change the fact that their society at large views the value of life a bit differently than the US does...

When you have a society that will sever the hand of a thief that is a repeat offender, it's pretty f**king apparent that human life is judged against a different standard than in the West...

Claiming that crime stats is a hallmark or foundation of where a civilization's values of "life" lies is patently ignorant. Period.

Since Iraq has no "official" numbers in terms of fatalities in terms of a government tally, does that mean that they must be the safest and most progressive place to live within the boundaries of the Middle-East???

Originally posted by tiv:

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Do you want me to find statistics for Washington DC ? (btw the 6.8 in 1997 was the lowest rate in 30 yrs for the US).

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Ok, I'll play; let's tally that against Hussein's body-count in the lowest year of the Iran-Iraq War during the 80's. How about the body-count that Palestine saw? Perhaps Afghanistan? Maybe Libya? (good luck getting a tally there) Ok, take Turkey for example. They are a semi-democracy (apparently the only Muslim one in existance) and view their treatment of Kurds, which is probably mostly "off the books"...

Gypsies and ethnic Bedouins are rountinely treated like s**t in most of these countries (target-practice for the military in some places), so please do me the favor and do your homework before spouting crime stats, alright?

The simple fact is that the sociological "value" of a single life in many Muslim countries as compared to Western countries is something that is simply impossible to quantify with homicide stats, due to the fact that many crimes of this nature go unreported in many of these countries. Honor rapes and killings are quite common in the "redneck" areas of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Sudan, Ethiopia and many other backwater Muslim nations and the reporting of such crimes is damn-well nonexistant.

Originally posted by tiv:

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I don't know what you mean by "Life is graded on a cheaper scale", but the average guy's chances to get killed are higher in Kansas City than in most (if not all) cities of the Middle-East (war zones excluded).

T.

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Having lived in KC and built houses in some of the worst areas of it through Habitat for Humanity in KC, MO and having visited UAE, Morocco and had close friends that have been in Saudi, Qatar, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Eqypt and a few other predominantly Muslim countries, I can feel fairly comfortable in saying that quoting crime stats here to prove the point that Middle-Eastern countries are much more progressive in the way they value life is patently pathetic.

Eat your Wheaties before trying to prop this argument up again; it certainly needs a bowl or two to fortify it...

Originally posted by tiv:

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Originally posted by warmonger:

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Most of those people have died by their own hands. Life is not precious to many of them, not even their own.

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Am I the only one to find such sentences disturbing ?
Most of those people died by the hands of terrorists, not "their own".
The grief and suffering of an Iraqi family losing a son lining up for a police job (#1 targets, hundreds killed) or a mother at a marketplace bombing is exactly the same as the grief and suffering of a New Jersey family losing someone in WTC.
Who do you think you are to decide whose life is precarious and whose is not ?

Tiv

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No, you're one of the only ones who can't think outside the context though.


Those same "Terrorists" you are talking about are Iraqi, NOT AMERICAN and they are neighbors, former friends or enemies, same religeous sect and not.
Die by their own hand means that it is mostly Iraqis killing Iraqis. There is nothing here about supporting or condemning that. It is just an observation.
I think I could see when someones life is PRECARIOUS, but I wasn't talking about that. (Someone who's car is hanging half-off a bridge might be considered to have a life that along with the car is precariously holding on )

Originally posted by tiv:

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Originally posted by JaTo:

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Life is graded on a cheaper scale in the Middle-East, as well as in other places compared to the US and other Western countries.

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The murder rate (homicides per 100,000 population) is:

6.8 (1997 data) in the United States (20.3 in large cities)
2.8 (2004 data) in Saudi Arabia
6.2 (1997 data) in Pakistan

Do you want me to find statistics for Washington DC ? (btw the 6.8 in 1997 was the lowest rate in 30 yrs for the US).

I don't know what you mean by "Life is graded on a cheaper scale", but the average guy's chances to get killed are higher in Kansas City than in most (if not all) cities of the Middle-East (war zones excluded).

T.

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Originally posted by tiv:

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I don't know what you mean by "Life is graded on a cheaper scale", but the average guy's chances to get killed are higher in Kansas City than in most (if not all) cities of the Middle-East (war zones excluded).

T.

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Okay, now I'm convinced that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Most of the car bombings in Iraq and Afganistan are made by people who were born there and they take out very few of the people they are actually targeting; mostly people trying to do the right thing and go to work.

Oh, and yes those people value the lives of their family and relatives, but outside that they just want to survive. But they won't lift a finger to stop some of the heinous crimes going on around them. If they saw a crime like a kidnapping taking place they would not intervene to stop it but instead breath a sigh of relief that it is not happening to one one of their own. In America it is not the same. Not only are people willing to go out and help someone, many are prepared to die to protect the freedom of others, not just their own family. And that is only because our system of government that is in place provides for a lawfull society. Take that away and our cities would be no different.
My original post was not meant derisively and it was not passing judgement on anyone. It was meant to illustrate how much deeper the issues go that just OIL as the average American who watches the news thinks. At least it provoked a response. I want people to sit back and think more about the issues than sit and spout off that America is Evil crap. It stinks worse especially coming from fellow American citizens.

Originally posted by loggerbomb:

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RT you complain about an ignorant Bush attack and than you come out with your own ignorant Canada attack? Thats very mature.

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