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#1516791 03/03/06 05:32 PM
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sweet

#1516792 06/19/06 12:10 AM
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Sorry to ressurect this, but I had to interject.

CAI intakes will always provide more torque and better timing advance then a standard WAI.

Also if you throw a heat shield around a WAI, you are creating more restriction at high RPM, and if you say no Im not creating more restriction, then your still drawing in warm air. Its that simple. If your filtering the air that is available to the engine (heatshield) then your a forcing a new path for air to be selected from, hence creating more restriction. (Even if its slight)

I used to manufacture custom CAI's for Hyundai between 2000-2004, I sold about 100-150 on ebay. I got bored of it, and the money in it dried up as my designs got copied ... and I was jsut doing this on the side anyways. But... I will come up with something, one piece, mandrel bent for the CSVT shortly. I just got my first one yesterday

The fenderwell CAI is the best you can get as far as performance is concenered, hands down. Drawing from on top of the hood or through a hood scoop yields trouble in city traffic (warm air rises) but offers benefits (RAM air) on the highway. This had been dealt with on many forums and many cars, and unless the CSVT has a very well vented engine bay.... it will apply.

The absolute best NA (temperature) setup (aside from porting/TB's etc) would be a heat wrapped true fenderwell CAI with a wrapped header and a custom exhaust with a hood vent blowing onto the Intake manifold.

I dont have my notes here, but as most of the Hyundais I dealt with were 2.0L's I had an example of an empty 2L of pop in 75 degrees and in 105 degrees.

With the cap on in 75 degrees, placing the bottle into 105 degree weather yields a hair over 1.4 PSI (or around 10% increase) of pressure. Boost is power.

Also taking the 105 degree bottle with the cap off and placing it into 75 degree weather (or water) caused the bottle to decrease in volume by about 10%.

The bottom line is there is more air molecules in 2.0L of cold air, then 2.0L's of warm air.


You can verify any numbers you'd like using the gas pressure vs temperature equations available at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_of_air

It is HIGHLY... unlikely that a WAI with a shield will be within 1-3 degeres fahrenhight of a true CAI. I measured an average of 25 degrees F difference after 10 minutes of runtime, and that was on a nice big enginebay with a small engine.

http://www.members.shaw.ca/diatech/Tiburon/Engine.jpg

I measured up to 50 degrees difference while sitting in traffic. This really.. really... retards the timing, and it wont clear right away as soon as you get cold air again.
---
Bottomline:

There are 3 disadvantes to a true CAI:

1) Hard to install
2) HARDER to keep clean (danger of engine damage in deep water)
3) There can a "slight" (I mean like 200 ms) increase in throttle response time, due to the longer pipe.

The 4 big advantages:

1) More TQ throughout the powerband
2) Means higher average HP
3) A slightly greater peak HP
4) Less chance of detonation.

The big one is the TQ, you will pick up more peak TQ with a true CAI, noticably moer, but your peak HP may only increase slightly (2-3 HP) due to other restrictions at high RPMS.

Hope this helps clear up the debate... or at least add to it

-Steve

Last edited by BV1; 06/19/06 12:11 AM.
#1516793 06/19/06 12:30 AM
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very interesting


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#1516794 06/19/06 12:54 AM
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Best newbie post ever.


Black 1998.5 3L Oval Port Full HMS Transmission Lots of other stuff Ressurected 06/14/06
#1516795 06/19/06 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by muntus:
Best newbie post ever.




agreed!

I'm curious to see what you come up with..


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#1516796 06/19/06 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
Originally posted by muntus:
Best newbie post ever.




agreed!

I'm curious to see what you come up with..





very interrested!!!


G/f's black 99se sport 5 speed 2 1/2 test pipe-custom cat back 3 single tip cai with kn3530 safc optimized tb 8mm plug wires spec stage 1 clutch svt front bumper
#1516797 06/19/06 09:16 PM
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He is not taking into account that with a heatshield you pull cool air fromt he fender, into the cool box area created by the shield. The same air a CAI would pick up.

Goonz dont go and buy another CAI just because its new!


Alex '99 SVT Contour -=|WANTED: Vortech, working or not |=-
#1516798 06/19/06 09:39 PM
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Would you expect air underneath the battery to be a lot cooler than air inside the driver's side wheel/fender well, around where the CSVT snorkle fits? I know nothing of heatshields in Hyundais. But if I pull my CSVT fenderwell snorkle to leave a big gaping hole; then fashion a heatshield out of a material which is a not a significant conductor of heat; then seal that heatshield with foam, etc against the hood, are you saying under the battery would be significantly cooler than from the wheel/fenderwell?

On the other hand, if you are only meaning to say an open element intake drawing warm underhood air is horrible for performance, that's been a given forever, there's no argument, no debate. So... how about we drop the reference to WAI from under the hood and consider the two "cool" draw locations against each other instead of against the underhood straw man. After we fast forward through Boyle's law and thermodynamic efficiency, is the one cool draw spot going to be so much cooler than the other? (And what if I'm not on a road course and my brakes are cool?)


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#1516799 06/19/06 10:52 PM
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Originally posted by Pudmunkie:


Goonz dont go and buy another CAI just because its new!




im not, im tryin to save for morrettes


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#1516800 06/20/06 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by Pudmunkie:
He is not taking into account that with a heatshield you pull cool air fromt he fender, into the cool box area created by the shield. The same air a CAI would pick up.

Goonz dont go and buy another CAI just because its new!




Originally posted by PDXSVT:
Would you expect air underneath the battery to be a lot cooler than air inside the driver's side wheel/fender well, around where the CSVT snorkle fits? I know nothing of heatshields in Hyundais. But if I pull my CSVT fenderwell snorkle to leave a big gaping hole; then fashion a heatshield out of a material which is a not a significant conductor of heat; then seal that heatshield with foam, etc against the hood, are you saying under the battery would be significantly cooler than from the wheel/fenderwell?




Gentlemen... a few points. I didnt say Im going back into business and selling these things. But I appreciate the interest.

I will come up with what I think is a good design and then post how its made for you, so you can do it. I use dynomax parts usually.

As for the above quotes, I AM taking into account that the heatshield is still drawing air from the fenderwell... or else why have a heatshield?....

Also, I dont know what to expect for temperatures in the CSVT fenderwell, but I DO expect them to be lower then 1-3 degrees from the engine bay heatshield application. Brake heat is very... very... minimal compared to exhaust heat. Think of the weight of a brake rotor vs an engine block. Then think of the energy that the block produces and the % of that, that one brake rotor dissipates... very minute. Dont worry about brake rotor heat in the air. Not saying they dont get hot, just saying its not a direct heater like the engine bay.

ALSO, the big advantage from the heatshield to the true CAI is that a mandrel bent intake running to the same source of coldair as the heatshield, acts just like an exhaust header when it comes to resonance.

Basically your pulling air very sloppy from the fenderwell with a heatshield setup, you may get that air, but it will not be a free flowing as a nice mandrel bent pipe into that area, nor will it be as cool. Its all about resonance, just like an properly tuned exhaust header. When you do it right, the intake will actually resonate at your peak TQ RPM for an extra 1-2 HP.


My intake setup made an extra 8WHP vs the AEM 5WHP in the Tib. Its not huge, its just all about doing it right.

Let me see what I can come up with before you call my bluff.

Thanks,

-Steve

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