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Going faster than what? So if the guy in the far right was going 55 then the others would be going 54-53? And if they were going slower then they should have merged behind the faster right hand driver.
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Originally posted by Berry Tweaker:
I am not saying what they did was not stupid... it was. But it shouldn't have been.
The whole point here is that it shouldn't have been stupid to go the speed limit. We all agree on that. But in real life, in the US today, and especially on the beltway of a major city, it's very dangerous. This isn't theroetical: it's safer to go the same speed as the rest of the cars than clog things up and create a major speed differential.
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Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
How could a number make any difference at all? The fact that traffic is going 90 instead of 50 makes a difference, but the number on the sign is irrelevant. All other factors equal, going 50 in a 50 is just as safe as going 50 in a 30. But one is speeding and one is not.
Be careful with your terms: speed makes a difference, speeding does not!
i am dumbfounded by that reasoning.
there are REASONS the state posts speed limits in certain areas. anything from the curve and angle of the road to possible hazardous conditions ahead. but there are always REASONS. going 50 in an area marked 30 is flat out stupid. i guarantee that area has been marked 30 for a reason. and just because you think you are a good driver and will be fine, doesn't make you more safe. accidents can happen to anyone at any time, and those limits are there to help reduce the risk.
~Andrew
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Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Look at what happened! People were jockeying for position and passing on the shoulder. It's completely obvious from watching that that there was a dangerous situation.
I admit, it was dangerous, but it shouldn't have been!
The people who were passing on the shoulder was plain stupid. They really had no reason to do that. I think you are missing my point though. There wouldn't have been a large congestion like that if everyone was going the speed limit. Going 75 in a 55 is not safer then going 55 in a 55. There will always be people going slower (ie the speed limit). So the person speeding will need to either be in the passing lane the whole time (which tod pointed is illegal), or pass them, get into the right lane again, then dodge out and get back in the passing lane.
Originally posted by auto-X Fil:
Originally posted by Berry Tweaker:
Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
the relation between the speed traffic travels and the number on a sign has absolutely no impact on safety
Again, I'm going to need some stats before I swallow that one. 
How could a number make any difference at all? The fact that traffic is going 90 instead of 50 makes a difference, but the number on the sign is irrelevant. All other factors equal, going 50 in a 50 is just as safe as going 50 in a 30. But one is speeding and one is not.
Be careful with your terms: speed makes a difference, speeding does not!
I am using the terms correctly. I am saying that speeding does impact the safety of a roadway. Having a large difference in the speed of different cars on the roadway is dangerous. On the roads today, people going the speed limit are the slow ones. On many of the highways i travel they have signs saying to use 4ways below 50mph (or something to that effect), why not just have signs that say 'if you are going to go the speed limit use your 4 way flashers so speeding people don't accidently rear-end you.' 
Ugh, nested quotes own me apparently.
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Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Originally posted by Berry Tweaker:
I am not saying what they did was not stupid... it was. But it shouldn't have been.
The whole point here is that it shouldn't have been stupid to go the speed limit. We all agree on that. But in real life, in the US today, and especially on the beltway of a major city, it's very dangerous. This isn't theroetical: it's safer to go the same speed as the rest of the cars than clog things up and create a major speed differential.
agreed! finally some common ground. 
~Andrew
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Originally posted by todras:
Going faster than what? So if the guy in the far right was going 55 then the others would be going 54-53? And if they were going slower then they should have merged behind the faster right hand driver.
What I am saying is that the passing lane is designed to enable people to pass the person in the right hand lane if he is not going the speed limit. The far left lane is normally passing, the far right is normally the 'slow traffic' lane, so yes... there should have been a tier of different speeds with the fastest being on the left.
Actually, I don't really care about this argument anymore. Its gotten into to much nit picking and contrived examples. I'm guilty of it as much as the next guy, but i'm done.
In closing, what they did was an eye opener, yet not smart.
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Originally posted by Berry Tweaker:
Going 75 in a 55 is not safer then going 55 in a 55. There will always be people going slower (ie the speed limit).
No, not always! Go to the D.C. beltway. You are dead meat at the speed limit!
I think we've stopped talking past each other, finally, except for one little point. Speed limits don't always make sense. speed limit enforcement doesn't always make sense. When one or both of them doesn't, traffic often flows much faster than the limit. When that is the case - and only when that is the case! - it's safer to go faster.
The situation they were in - a crowded beltway - was safer at the higher speed that it was at than with them blocking it. It may or may not have been safer for them to go 55 in the far right lane than to go faster, but I don't know that road, so I can't make that call.
That's all I'm saying: traffic determines safety, not speed limits. Speed limits affect traffic to varying degrees, but your responsibilty as a driver is to not be a danger to anyone. There are situations when it's safer to go above the speed limit than at/below it.
Just so we're all on the same page:
Speed limits are often bogus/poorly enforced
These kids realized this, but demonstrated it in a dangerous way
It's best to go the speed limit unless there are traffic conditions that prevent it.
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Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Originally posted by Berry Tweaker:
Going 75 in a 55 is not safer then going 55 in a 55. There will always be people going slower (ie the speed limit).
No, not always! Go to the D.C. beltway. You are dead meat at the speed limit!
BTW, I was going the speed limit on 695 heading to a cap. CEG meet and there were a few other people in the lane with me @ same speed.
But yes, I think we can agree on those last points.
edit: I can't get these damn nested quotes to work 
Last edited by Berry Tweaker; 03/02/06 03:59 PM.
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Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Just so we're all on the same page:
Speed limits are often bogus/poorly enforced
These kids realized this, but demonstrated it in a dangerous way
It's best to go the speed limit unless there are traffic conditions that prevent it.
i'd be willing to give that my Herbie Hancock
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i have a solution  make the speed limit on highways 35! that way people will speed and go 55, and anyone doing 70 or 80 would get caught with one of those "you're not going to be driving again for a loooong time" tickets. a real solution: Speed cameras. like in the uk. put them everywhere. if someone wants to speed on the highways, they will get a series of tickets in the mail possibly from one trip.
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