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Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Originally posted by Berry Tweaker:
Going 75 in a 55 is not safer then going 55 in a 55. There will always be people going slower (ie the speed limit).
No, not always! Go to the D.C. beltway. You are dead meat at the speed limit!
Just so we're all on the same page:
Speed limits are often bogus/poorly enforced
These kids realized this, but demonstrated it in a dangerous way
It's best to go the speed limit unless there are traffic conditions that prevent it.
Wow, I enjoyed that movie! I used to live in the Atlanta area and for 2 years commuted from the south side to the north side of the city for work on a daily basis, so I have been all over 295.
Part of their point (based on the discussions prior to the stunt) was that if the posted and legal speed limit is 55 but everyone does 75 and that is kind of accepted. Then if someone drives 80 and gets pulled over and ticketed, why would he get written up for 25 over, not 5 over?
I agree that those people who don't keep with traffic, or at least get up to the speed minimum (NOT MAXIMUM) in the right lane, (usually older people) are a potential hazard. But wouldn't be true if everyone was DRIVING THE SPEED LIMIT OR LESS! The non-speeder is only a "hazard" because everyone behind him is impatiently trying to get around him any which way (as demonstrated in this movie). I couldn't believe people were going around them on the shoulders etc. (And I drive every now and again into Boston, where the shoulders are legally used as lanes during high traffic times on some highways. Wow that was weird the first time!...)
The real gist here is that if everyone did the speed limit, then NOONE WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH OTHERS THAT DID THE LIMIT!
I agree that what they did (their little experiment/ movie) was dangerous. But IT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN! If everyone around them was FOLLOWING THE LAW, they wouldn't have even noticed those 4 cars.
But how were the experiment participants any more of a hazard than a police officer sitting on the side of the road would be. Haven't we all seen that? Everyone is tooling along at 70, come over a hill, and Mr. Officer is in the center or off on the right with his radar gun out (or just sitting there) and everyone is slamming on their brakes... I've seen near accidents caused by that situation.
I would agree that 55 is too low for many places. The 55 mph speed limit was actually set in the 70's during the fuel crisis. The number was chosen as the most fuel efficient at the time. See: Article that mentions that. Most likely modern cars are more efficient at the slightly elevated speeds, but I don't have facts and figures to back me up. But don't just break the law and act surprised or indignant when you are ticketed for breaking the law. Get the law changed. Now that the Federal Government has repealed the 55 mph national maximum, the limits are set by the local governments.
I think the bottom line is that the speed limit is the speed limit: That is the law. Laws exist to keep people and society in general, safe. If you don't like the law, then do something to try to get it changed, which was a goal of this movie.
But, if you are traveling 80 mph in a 55 mph zone, you are guilty of speeding, and guilty of going 25 mph over the speed limit. Maybe you won't get caught and ticketed today. Go ahead and take your chances. Good luck defending yourself to the officer or judge by saying, well everyone else was doing it, or the real speed on that highway is 75...
Everyone needs to take it easy, be patient and nice to others. While you are piloting your 2-3000 lb. death trap around, give others a break. No one is there trying to annoy you, or keep you from getting home or to your all too important party, on time.
I'm guilty of this as well, so don't think I'm preaching. Just this week I passed some guy on a back road because he was driving 32 in a 35 mph zone (usually people go about 40 ish...)
Can't we all just get along?
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Originally posted by Guitarman19853:
i have a solution  make the speed limit on highways 35! that way people will speed and go 55, and anyone doing 70 or 80 would get caught with one of those "you're not going to be driving again for a loooong time" tickets.
a real solution: Speed cameras. like in the uk. put them everywhere. if someone wants to speed on the highways, they will get a series of tickets in the mail possibly from one trip.
Those are some decent ideas!
I like the idea of the cameras, but only after the limits have been made more realistic. I wonder how people would respond to those cameras being used large scale. There would probably be crying about the violation of their privacy or some BS like that.
But I know that a system like that is possible here. Near my new job, there is a street corner onto a large divided highway. There is a gas station on that corner. Evidently people used to cut the corner, which was dangerous I'm sure. They have several cameras in plain sight and a sign that says that only customers of the XYZ station are allowed in there. If you cut through you will automatically be ticketed. It mentions that you will get the ticket in the mail.
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Auto-x, I've gotta disagree with you. You talk about traffic flow like it's a prevailing requirement to conform to. It is not, expecially when it is determined the speed of traffic flow is unsafe.
Posted limits are based on things like roadway geometry and traffic volumes (roadway capacity). If 55 is the posted limit, 70 is not a safer traffic flow - no matter how many people do it. To suggest that it is safer going 70 in those congested conditions with a 55 speed limit is wishful thinking at best. Just wrong-headed IMHO.
Thing of it is, people are sheep & creatures of habit. They see others going over speed, so they push the pedal a little too. Once they've been doing that speed over those roadways for a while, it becomes habit - & a hard one to break, too.
Those folks, by doing the speed limit, did nothing wrong IMHO. The hot-heads & creatures of habit were the ones creating the dangerous situation. Yes, the speed difference is an issue, but the sheep breaking the speed laws are the ones at fault for causing the disparity in speed, not the ones obeying the law.
Frankly, I'd like to see more law enforcement performing rolling road blocks in areas where speeding is a problem. The increased visibility of the LEOs would be welcomed by me as a motorist, and by all of the guys performing the construction work on I-95 where all the speeding is happening here now.
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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I agree with the students that there is a problem, but I don't think what they did was safe. If it is argued the the whole issue is speed limits and safety, then why would you do something that is unsafe, simply to prove a point, which is in fact already proven by the fact that so many exceed the posted limit?.
The Federal government imposed a national 55MPH limit during the energy crisis of 70's by withholding Fed Hwy funds from states that did not comply, it was simple a state could set any limit it wanted, but if it was in excess of 55 no money. This was done because most interstates were designed for safe trave at 75MPH with 1950's technology given a rural population density. The point is that since 55MPH was repealed, states have been wrestling with what is a reasonable and prudent speed, given the changes in technology and population density.
I beleive the University of NC did a study in late 80's or early 90's that concluded that most people drove at a speed that was reasonable and prudent, meaning that most of those people on the DC beltway are driving at a speed at which they feel comfortable, even if it is in violation of the speed limit. To suggest that todays speed limits have a basis in safety is not entirely correct. As 55MPH was certainly not a safety issue but an energy issue.
When 55 was repealed most states almost immediately raised limits on interstates, but without conducting studys to determine what an appropriate speed would be. In the end I think the students would have been better off starting a lobbying campaign to commision some comprehensive studies, but instead I think they wanted to feel important but having an effect on traffic. While they were not breaking the law with respect to speed limits, failure to yeild to faster moving traffic is a violation in most states so that person in the left lane could have been ticketed.
just my .02.
PS I have worked in the insurance industry for 10 years and can tell you that there have been inside studies that have shown that dissimilar speeds is a bigger cause of accidents than is speeding alone.
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lol, just athought here, nothing to do with either argument. but: dont want speeders around you? paint you car like a cop car and/or give it a few undercover cop things that aren't so uncerdover, and watch the magic of no one speeding
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Originally posted by ToasterOven:
lol, just athought here, nothing to do with either argument. but: dont want speeders around you? paint you car like a cop car and/or give it a few undercover cop things that aren't so uncerdover, and watch the magic of no one speeding
very true... i'm sure anyone that drives a white crown vic gets that all the time. unmarked police cars in pa at least (from what i've seen) still have the blue special license plates. but you can only tell that fron the back.
~Ryan
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Originally posted by Pimpalicious316:
Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Again, how is speeding a threat at all?
And how can you say that there is not a very significant threat in affecting traffic flow like they did?
you actually think speeding isn't a threat? that is perhaps the most ridiculous thing i have heard yet in this thread. their are speed limits for a reason. it's not to make sure it takes you longer to get to work. it is for safety.
~Andrew
BS, BS, BS, BS, ad infinitum.
You are confused. "Speeding" is defined as driving at a speed that is above the posted "speed limit."
The "speed limit," while taking road design and population and traffic density and perhaps other factors into consideration, is a statutory, not a physical, limitation that is often politically motivated.
"Driving too fast" contributes to and exacerbates many traffic accidents. That is the fact, but it is often represented by the authorities as "speeding causes x." This is a popular misnomer, used by legislative authorities to promote bigger fines (revenue) and more restrictive limits.
It does happen, sometimes, that the "maximum safe speed" roughly correlates with the posted "speed limit." I believe this to be mostly true on urban surface streets.
Often, though, the "speed limit" in rural uncongested areas and freeways is far below the maximum safe speed. Likewise, I think a 30mph is too fast in a modern residential subdivision with twisty roads, and yet that is how most of them are posted.
I've heard of an idea whereby speed limits would be set at whatever speed 80% of the traffic is travelling. The remaining 20% are probably going too fast for conditions, or obstructing traffic by going too slow. Of course, if you did this, that would mean that only 20% of the drivers would be breaking the law at any given time, which would make it somewhat more difficult for local police to generate revenue.
Function before fashion.
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Originally posted by todras:
And what happened to the law of staying in the right lanes except to pass someone going under the speed limit?! What a bunch of tools.
This is America. There is no such law. At least not that I've ever seen enforced.
Function before fashion.
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"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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Originally posted by Guitarman19853:
i have a solution make the speed limit on highways 35! that way people will speed and go 55, and anyone doing 70 or 80 would get caught with one of those "you're not going to be driving again for a loooong time" tickets.
a real solution: Speed cameras. like in the uk. put them everywhere. if someone wants to speed on the highways, they will get a series of tickets in the mail possibly from one trip.
Yes! Bring on the mind control chips, next!
Live free or die, commie scum!
Function before fashion.
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Rodger B I agree with your first post, subdivisions are at 30MPH but the southern streatch the NJ turnpike is at 65MPH, one is too fast the other too slow. But disagree with your second post, if you are on a public roadway with multiple lanes if someone attempts to pass you on the left you should move over and let them by. The reason being is they may very well be an unmarked car etc. In NYC it is not uncommon for police to come up from behind on the left side on boulevards in excess of the 35MPH limit. They don't want to hit the siren because that would tip off the bad people they are trying to sneek up on. They will often radio a marked car to stop the left lane squater down the road and issue a ticket. Mind you the ticket won't stand up because the officer witnessing the offense didn't issue the ticket. But most will just pay it.
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