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Here's an article about the latest insider who has gone public with the truth about how Bush (and his gang) created a phony case for war:

Reuters on CIA official Paul Pillar's accusations against Bush. (Full article set forth below)

All of you have heard essentially the same accusations from General Zinni, Richard Clarke, the British memo, etc. Here is my question: do any of you still seriously believe that Bush did NOT mislead us about the grounds (and even the necessity) for going to war?


White House misused Iraq intelligence: ex-official
By David Morgan

A former CIA official who coordinated U.S. intelligence on the Middle East during the Iraq invasion accused the White House of misusing prewar intelligence to justify its case for war.

Paul Pillar, who was national intelligence officer for the Near East and South Asia from 2000 to 2005, also said the Senate intelligence committee and a presidential commission overlooked evidence that the Bush administration politicized the intelligence process to support White House policymakers.

"Official intelligence on Iraqi weapons programs was flawed but even with its flaws, it was not what led to the war," Pillar said in an article written for the March/April issue of Foreign Affairs and posted on the magazine's Web site on Friday.

"If the entire body of official intelligence analysis on Iraq had a policy implication, it was to avoid war -- or, if war was going to be launched, to prepare for a messy aftermath," he said.

Pillar was not immediately available for comment. A CIA spokesman said Pillar was expressing his own personal point of view and not the official views of the spy agency.

The CIA and other agencies that make up the U.S. intelligence community have been widely criticized for prewar Iraq intelligence including the claim that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, which was a main justification for the war. No such weapons have been found.

'CHERRY-PICKING' INTELLIGENCE

But Pillar, a widely respected intelligence analyst who spent 28 years at the CIA, said it has become clear since the 2003 invasion that the White House did not use official intelligence analysis in making even the most significant national security decisions.

Policymakers instead employed a "cherry-picking" approach that selected pieces of raw intelligence that seemed most favorable to its WMD claims and the charge of a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda.

The White House ignored intelligence reports that said Iraq was not fertile ground for democracy and warned of a long, difficult turbulent post-invasion period that would require a Marshall Plan-type effort to restore the country's economy despite its abundant oil reserves.

Reports also predicted an occupying force would be a target of resentment and attacks including guerrilla warfare.

Pillar said the Bush administration politicized Iraq intelligence by repeatedly calling for more material that would contribute to its case for war, a tactic that he said skewed intelligence resources toward topics favoring the White House.

The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and the WMD commission have both concluded in official reports that there was no evidence of White House political pressure.

"But the method of investigation used by the panels -- essentially, asking analysts whether their arms had been twisted -- would have caught only the crudest attempts at politicization," Pillar wrote.



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You do know that Tenet was fired, right?? He's the one who, when questioned on the integrety of the intelligence, said it was a, "Slam dunk.". Remember that?

Now, lets assume for a minute that we had NO intellegence on Iraq at all. What evidence did the WORLD have to show that there were WMD in Iraq that may have been falling into the hands of those who might to the US harm???

THE IRAQI DECLARATIONS TO THE U.N.

Even if the intellegence was faulty, there was still the declarations made BY IRAQ to the U.N.

Additionally, talk about cherry picking information, what about the book recently published by a former Iraqi military leader that the WMD were spirited into Syria via commercial passenger liners & other means? I notice the media conveniently overlooks that. What about the IAEA report to the U.N. about finding radio active contaminated stainless steel being recycled in Europe & the paperwork that traced it back to .... Jordan, then Syria, then Iraq. The same report that documented the dismantling of entire buildings in suspected sites in Iraq - with satellite photos & everything. The media conveniently overlooked that too. Amazing...

Seriously now. With the documented use of the agents on his own people, the documented purchase of materials & supplies needed for the production of such agents, and the U.N.s own evidence and reports on suspected sites, attempted cover ups & obstruction by Iraq, and the sudden silence & dissappearance of the persons allegedly in charge of those programs in Iraq, do you seriously believe that there were no WMDs in Iraq??

Last edited by TourDeForce; 02/10/06 07:48 PM.

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Originally posted by TourDeForce:
You do know that Tenet was fired, right??




no he resigned as part of an effort to take some of the blame off of the bush admin for failing to present results supporting the case for war. and from what i recall of his testimony he hasn't admitted to the "slam dunk" statement.


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TourDeForce, I think you are missing the point of the article. The article doesn't say there NEVER was ANY evidence of WMDs. It says that the Bush Administration deliberately misused intelligence to make a phony case for war.

We all agree there was SOME evidence of WMD programs (long before the war, anyway). But insiders like Pillar are telling us that the evidence showed that Iraq was never an imminent threat to our security. Bush took a bit of evidence here and there to cook up a horrible immediate (albeit imaginary) threat to justify his war.

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Originally posted by Tourist:
...the evidence showed that Iraq was never an imminent threat to our security.




As I recall, there was some debate on if GW ever described the threat as imminent. I don't recall those words coming from him, and in fact, I seem to recall several people saying that he never claimed the threat was imminent, only that it was serious.

After 9-11 we all knew we had a despirate & fanatical enemy out there. If you take a look at the two declarations that Iraq supplied to the U.N. you will note some gaping discrepancies that were well documented by CBS news. Yes, CBS news - they had those discrepancies specifically outlined in detail on their website for at least a year after the march on Iraq. Where was all that material? Was it destroyed? Was it otherwise disposed of? Was it made available to terrorist organizations? We had no way of knowing because Saddam would not allow inspections, he would not allow interviewing of key people in the programs, he would not provide documentation of the disposition of those materials. For all the world knew, Al-Queda now had those materials in their hands.

That was the threat & problem we faced in Iraq. After 9-11 the game got serious, and Saddam, having bought the U.N. veto vote from france, underestimated GW.

Last edited by TourDeForce; 02/10/06 08:44 PM.

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I'm going to go make some popcorn before some of the political regulars start spitting all over this thread..


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then what is the point of pre-emptive attack? are you familiar with National Security Strategy of the United States ?

edit:

"Some have argued that the nuclear threat from Iraq is not imminent - that Saddam is at least 5-7 years away from having nuclear weapons. I would not be so certain. And we should be just as concerned about the immediate threat from biological weapons. Iraq has these weapons."
â?¢ Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 9/18/02

"Well, of course he is.�
â?¢ White House Communications Director Dan Bartlett responding to the question â??is Saddam an imminent threat to U.S. interests, either in that part of the world or to Americans right here at home?â?, 1/26/03

Last edited by BP; 02/10/06 08:48 PM.

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Originally posted by BP:
then what is the point of pre-emptive attack? are you familiar with National Security Strategy of the United States ?




I added to my above post so you could wrap your mind around the situation...


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Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by Tourist:
...the evidence showed that Iraq was never an imminent threat to our security.




After 9-11 we all knew we had a despirate & fanatical enemy out there. If you take a look at the two declarations that Iraq supplied to the U.N. you will note some gaping discrepancies that were well documented by CBS news. Yes, CBS news - they had those discrepancies specifically outlined in detail on their website for at least a year after the march on Iraq. Where was all that material? Was it destroyed? Was it otherwise disposed of? Was it made available to terrorist organizations? We had no way of knowing because Saddam would not allow inspections, he would not allow interviewing of key people in the programs, he would not provide documentation of the disposition of those materials. For all the world knew, Al-Queda now had those materials in their hands.





Yes, of course there were ample grounds for concern about whether Iraq was a security threat. We probably all agree that Iraq was a "security threat" of some kind. But the issue here is whether Bush intentionally exaggerated that threat. The article says he did.

What's wrong with the President taking some liberties with the truth, and deliberately exaggerating a security threat? Here's what's wrong with that: when a President exaggerates a security threat, he is misleading the public (and government and business leaders) about whether the war really is necessary. When a President distorts the facts, or "cherry-picks the evidence," or uses overly inflammatory rhetoric (such as "the axis of evil"), he tends to (temporarily) prevent the public from making a rational decision based on the facts. This allows him a (temporary) opening to do just about whatever he wants. Bush used his opening to commit us to a costly and misguided war.

By exaggerating the security threat, Bush greatly boosted his own power. He got to use the enormous war powers granted to him under our constitution, and he got all the political benefits that accrue to a wartime President (reflexive patriotic support from voters, a huge war budget to distribute to his corporate political backers, and lots of new plumb jobs to distribute to his friends). After all, his poll numbers were quite low, and his chances for re-election were fading, so it must have been an irresistible temptation.

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Originally posted by Tourist:
What's wrong with the President taking some liberties with the truth, and deliberately exaggerating a security threat? Here's what's wrong with that: ...




I'm not 6 years old. I understand the implications. My contention is that he did not embellish the potential based on:

1. The intel information from agencies (domestic & foreign) available to him
2. The global situation in the post 9-11 environment
3. The discrepancies in Iraqs own declarations to the U.N. about their stockpiles, programs, and materials
4. The U.N. corruption that was becoming obvious in the reaction of the french (especially) to U.S. efforts to enforce PREVIOUS U.N. resolutions and pass stronger measures to bring Iraq into compliance with past resolutions.


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