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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 225
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 225 |
Quote:
Ummm, no - not in a spark ignited (Otto cycle) engine, friend. What you are speaking of is running alcohol in a diesel cycle.
ummm, yes - heard of the term direct injection? This is being developed for both gasoline and diesel engines and is being used by more and more major manufacturers every day. One of the main development testbeds for this technology was the audi R8 LMP1 car. They have since then expanded the technology to many production cars, as have other brands.
Also, as far as the main disussion goes, ethanol does not have near the stored energy that gasoline has. The performance benefit with forced induction is because of the ease with which ethanol can gain high octane ratings. Now for some more drawbacks. Ethanol has a tendency to attract water into the fuel system and also will eat up most stock fuel delivery systems that have not initially been designed for it. However, I am very much pro-ethanol as long as the research and development time is spent to make it a more viable option than it currently is. The potential is there it has simply not been realized yet.
99 csvt
68 cuda fastback 340
00 gp gtp (wife)
01 gs500
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,859
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,859 |
Get yourself a flip chip from Sct. You will need something to command more fuel once you put in the injectors and pump. You would have to test sizes or find a formula. I would think a set of 24 or 30# injectors would be ok with a walbro 255lph pump(they may make a smaller one). In the even of using regular gas you can flip the chip back so the computer isn't flooding your engine. The tune may be difficult, going to need some one with experience to tune it. I would think for around $800 you should be able to get this done. Cheaper if you get a deal on the injectors. Pumps are cheap at $100, don't bother with used there and don't cheap out on the tune. Now I am not sure about factory rubber components or even the tank, but I really don't think it will be a problem. FYI GM'S new E85 trucks suffer no lose in power or tourqe when compared to using gasoline on the same engine. GL I have been thinking about this myself, but not sure where I can obtan E85 out in the real world. I think its a good idea, if it doesn't work you can pretty much sell the parts off or recycle them for another project.
Talk to the pump and injector manufactures they should be able to give you more insight as well.
'99 Silver svt
For sale
19" Axis Neo wheels
3.0 parts, pre-98 trunk,
Check classifieds
bp.powell@comcast.net
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7
Newbie
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Newbie
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7 |
Originally posted by Escortrs88:
Now i don't know much about running ethanol or how it works, but how different is what you guys are talking about to like what a drag car runs?
A person that i work with has a drag car that runs in the low 9's and it runs on ethanol. She told me that it is haft the cost of race fuel but you use twice as much, so in that regard its a wash. Performance they got .2 seconds when they switched over, and thats a lot when you are in the 9's. Down side, you get a lot of water in the oil, even with a oil/water separator they have to change the oil every day after being at the track. It also runs really cold, so cold that when driving in the pits and durring the pre-staging they run it on race gas because other wise it would not get up to temp for the run. Durring the run they turn the water pump off and at the end the water temp is only about 180 to 190 in the engine.
Now like i said, i don't know how different this type of setup is to what you are talking about.
they don't use ethanol they use methanol. and they don't use it because it has more stored energy. they use it because you only need about half the oxygen to make it burn
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 254
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 254 |
Ethanol has about 33% less energy than gasoline. So you will be burning more. It may be cheaper but you will get less mileage. Also if your car isn't made for it expect problems. The fuel pump and level sensor will most likely fail. You would need to buy a pump made for a flex fuel vehicle. And I would expect the level sensor to fail often due to the high conductivity of the fuel. As mentioned earlier O rings and other gaskets not made for it could also swell and cause problems. This would not be worth it just go buy a Taurus if you want to run the E85 it will probably be close to the same cost. Trying to run E85 would most likely be a continuous headache.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 81
CEG\'er
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OP
CEG\'er
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 81 |
Originally posted by three57mag:
Originally posted by Escortrs88:
Now i don't know much about running ethanol or how it works, but how different is what you guys are talking about to like what a drag car runs?
A person that i work with has a drag car that runs in the low 9's and it runs on ethanol. She told me that it is haft the cost of race fuel but you use twice as much, so in that regard its a wash. Performance they got .2 seconds when they switched over, and thats a lot when you are in the 9's. Down side, you get a lot of water in the oil, even with a oil/water separator they have to change the oil every day after being at the track. It also runs really cold, so cold that when driving in the pits and durring the pre-staging they run it on race gas because other wise it would not get up to temp for the run. Durring the run they turn the water pump off and at the end the water temp is only about 180 to 190 in the engine.
Now like i said, i don't know how different this type of setup is to what you are talking about.
they don't use ethanol they use methanol. and they don't use it because it has more stored energy. they use it because you only need about half the oxygen to make it burn
thank you thank you, sorry I havent been on for a while, my new trainer is kinda stinchy. anyway yeah methanol is used in drag cars, they dont use it in the pits or to start it cause it WILL detonate, parts everywhere, very bad.
What about alc with either propane or maybe an oxidizer, (maybe even HO, mmmmm rocket fuel) injected with it, possibly solve the "lower potential energy" (now going to be LPE for sake of quickness and efficiency) problem and get a large gain with a fuel that is about 1/3 as expensive.
I hate mcdonnalds
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 197
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 197 |
[thread] Originally posted by svtavino:
Ethanol has about 33% less energy than gasoline. So you will be burning more. It may be cheaper but you will get less mileage. Also if your car isn't made for it expect problems. The fuel pump and level sensor will most likely fail. You would need to buy a pump made for a flex fuel vehicle. And I would expect the level sensor to fail often due to the high conductivity of the fuel. As mentioned earlier O rings and other gaskets not made for it could also swell and cause problems. This would not be worth it just go buy a Taurus if you want to run the E85 it will probably be close to the same cost. Trying to run E85 would most likely be a continuous headache.
[/thread]
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