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Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
Originally posted by Davo:
Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Gooz, I don't know you or your history, all I konw is that you are Muslim and seem to be a 'common sense' (for a lack of better terms) Muslim, and I believe that is the exact problem with Islam is that people such as yourself aren't standing up for yourself and showing the world that these guys don't represent you. What the world sees, and thus believe is Islam, are the beheadings, rioting, etc. Stand up and voice yourself or Islam will continually get this rap. Period.
Exactly. I don't see widespread condemnation of this activity from worldwide leaders of Islam. When abortion clinics were bombed in the name of Christianity, Christian leaders worldwide publicly and incessantly condemned the attacks.
Its really hard for us living in the US to watch and condem these violences. We can condem them but the American people will go watch the news and the media will protray somthing else. However my feelings are that the cartoons were really distastefull and since the first newspaper company distributed them and had alot of riots regarding them, I felt it was a smack to the face when other Dutch newspapers did exactly the same. I mean its worse enough if you have one paper doing it but then other newspapers, this was bound to happen. The muslim world at the moment is very unstable due to the middle east. You got the whole Palestine issue, Iraq issue mainly and then Afghanistan. Its really not going oh so well for us ya know. Pakistan is pretty much doing what the US tells it to do. Pakistan is soo unstable because you got people blowing up public buses killing their own innocent people just to tell the government to stop listening to the US. Its really a shame and I do agree with most of you that in the end it comes down to lack of educataion. These people think they and their religion are under threat by others (mainly Bush, just a speculation) which has what lead to the famous "j" word jihad. This is complete nonsense where you go killing inoocent people in the name of Allah. It angers me because here we are are in the US trying to give Islam a good image and then you got these fanatics goin crazy there killing innocent people in name of Islam. Its really really hard being a muslim right now. But as I said before, the cartoons were very very distasteful imho, and the fact that other newspapers went along and published them really was a smack to the face. Violence is not the soloution to this, I would agree with friendly protests but then storming embassies and etc, complete insanity  oh so i hope one day islam (the largest growing religion) has a good name to people
this is all I can say
Thanks for the response Goonz. I know this isn't really related to you, but a year or so ago, an 'artist' made a sculpture or something to that affect of the Virgin Mary out of poop or porn (can't specifically remember). Is that not offensive to Catholics? It was 'protected' under free speech / artistic value. Can you see the corralation from that to these cartoons of Muhammad? I know the majority of the Muslim population probably doesn't know about this, but just curious about your opinion.
I just wish the educated/civilized Muslim population would get a much louder voice...
i heard about it and really theres nothing one can do if its protected under free speech. As I said before, it be hard for muslims in the US to voice out cause we would sit here saying what the muslims in the middle east are doing is wrong, but then you see what they have to say, it be killing some journalist, ya know. You are dealing with a mojority of poor un-educated muslims that no matter how much we sit here try to voice out, their actions over there will speak louder unfortunatly
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Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
Originally posted by Davo:
Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Gooz, I don't know you or your history, all I konw is that you are Muslim and seem to be a 'common sense' (for a lack of better terms) Muslim, and I believe that is the exact problem with Islam is that people such as yourself aren't standing up for yourself and showing the world that these guys don't represent you. What the world sees, and thus believe is Islam, are the beheadings, rioting, etc. Stand up and voice yourself or Islam will continually get this rap. Period.
Exactly. I don't see widespread condemnation of this activity from worldwide leaders of Islam. When abortion clinics were bombed in the name of Christianity, Christian leaders worldwide publicly and incessantly condemned the attacks.
Its really hard for us living in the US to watch and condem these violences. We can condem them but the American people will go watch the news and the media will protray somthing else. However my feelings are that the cartoons were really distastefull and since the first newspaper company distributed them and had alot of riots regarding them, I felt it was a smack to the face when other Dutch newspapers did exactly the same. I mean its worse enough if you have one paper doing it but then other newspapers, this was bound to happen. The muslim world at the moment is very unstable due to the middle east. You got the whole Palestine issue, Iraq issue mainly and then Afghanistan. Its really not going oh so well for us ya know. Pakistan is pretty much doing what the US tells it to do. Pakistan is soo unstable because you got people blowing up public buses killing their own innocent people just to tell the government to stop listening to the US. Its really a shame and I do agree with most of you that in the end it comes down to lack of educataion. These people think they and their religion are under threat by others (mainly Bush, just a speculation) which has what lead to the famous "j" word jihad. This is complete nonsense where you go killing inoocent people in the name of Allah. It angers me because here we are are in the US trying to give Islam a good image and then you got these fanatics goin crazy there killing innocent people in name of Islam. Its really really hard being a muslim right now. But as I said before, the cartoons were very very distasteful imho, and the fact that other newspapers went along and published them really was a smack to the face. Violence is not the soloution to this, I would agree with friendly protests but then storming embassies and etc, complete insanity oh so i hope one day islam (the largest growing religion) has a good name to people
this is all I can say
Good to hear from you Goonz. That's ONE Muslim speaking out. Now gather a few more. A march on your local capital or Muslim gathering in any town to protest the violence by insurgents in Iraq, Afghanistan, & Pakistan WILL make headlines. The American people & the media have been waiting & watching for it. If your moderate views are mainstream and you denounce the radicals around the world, so much of this violence can be avoided. Once some moderate Muslims stand to be counted, many more will follow.
Considering the state of Islam & the fanatics that are running about making headlines, I am not at all surprised that those potentially affected by it will try to marginalize Islam & it's leaders - starting with cartoons. If things continue they way they have, Islam will have much more to be concerned with than just a few sketches in a newspaper. Jihad can work both ways.
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Originally posted by RTStabler51:
I just wish the educated/civilized Muslim population would get a much louder voice...
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SourceOriginally posted by Military.com AP article:
KABUL, Afghanistan - Afghan security forces opened fire on demonstrators Monday, leaving at least four dead, as increasingly violent protests erupted around the world over published caricatures of Islam's Prophet Muhammad. European and Muslim politicians pleaded for calm.
The worst of the violence was outside Bagram, the main U.S. base in Afghanistan, with Afghan police firing on some 2,000 protesters as they tried to break into the heavily guarded facility, said Kabir Ahmed, the local government chief.
Two demonstrators were killed and five were injured, while eight police also were hurt, he said. No U.S. troops were involved in the clashes, the military said.
The protesters in Afghanistan threw stones at the U.S. base and smashed a guard post. Some of those in the crowd then shot at the base with assault rifles, prompting the police to return fire, Ahmed said.
U.S. military spokesman, Lt. Mike Cody, said American troops did not fire on the crowd and security was left to the Afghan police.
I hope the other 1,993 learned their lesson!
Originally posted by Military.com AP article:
The protesters then threw stones at the mission and beat some officers guarding it, as well as some guards at a nearby house used by Belgian diplomats.
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"Long live Islam! We are Muslims! We don't let anyone insult our prophet!" chanted the demonstrators, many of whom appeared to be teenagers. They also chanted, "Down with America!" and slogans against the Afghan and U.S. presidents.
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Protesters called for the death of anyone who insults Muhammad
Acting pretty uncivilized here. What if protestors in the US called for the death of anyone who insults us? Sure these same idiots would "demonstrate" against that too.
Originally posted by Military.com AP article:
Thousands of other people demonstrated peacefully in at least five other cities. The spreading unrest came day after some 4,000 Afghans took to the streets across the country.
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Melees also broke out during protests in New Delhi and Gaza City, while several thousand students massed peacefully in Cairo on the campus of al-Azhar University, the oldest and most important seat of Sunni Muslim learning in the world, to protest the drawings.
Other than the little fist fights, here's the civilized people.
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Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
As I said before, it be hard for muslims in the US to voice out cause we would sit here saying what the muslims in the middle east are doing is wrong, but then you see what they have to say, it be killing some journalist, ya know.
Have Mosque leaders spoken out against the violence to any extent? I'm asking honestly, because I actually don't know.
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Originally posted by Viss1:
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
As I said before, it be hard for muslims in the US to voice out cause we would sit here saying what the muslims in the middle east are doing is wrong, but then you see what they have to say, it be killing some journalist, ya know.
Have Mosque leaders spoken out against the violence to any extent? I'm asking honestly, because I actually don't know.
yes they do, at every firday prayer, the imam is always like we are destroying ourselves by all this violence happening over at the middle east..it is not Islam at all..its very sad seeing the imam get emmotional and at points sob a little..makes me feel terrible inside
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Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
yes they do, at every firday prayer, the imam is always like we are destroying ourselves by all this violence happening over at the middle east..it is not Islam at all..its very sad seeing the imam get emmotional and at points sob a little..makes me feel terrible inside
That's great, but I think Viss1 meant public condemnation of the violence. What you mention above is akin to the Catholic priests saying how the molestation scandals are hurting Catholics, without the Catholic Church saying anything about it.
A Muslim group (I believe in the U.S.) came out against terrorism/radicalism a couple months ago, but I can't recall precisely who it was. I remember noting it as a good first step.
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Originally posted by BP:
playing the role of intentional antagonist just to spite muslims in the name of 'freedom of expression' isn't the role of the press imo.
bullying and taunting the muslim community with these images was childish and very uncalled for. how is this objectively reporting the news?
Is it fact that they printed this just to provoke the Muslim community? I'm not saying it was right for them to do it but I didn't hear the same thing from people when those paintings of Jesus with cow poop was released. I remember people calling it art and not something used to provoke the Christian comminity.
I sure am glad the religion of peace and tollerance is doing just that! 
- Tim
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Originally posted by Corbett:
Is it fact that they printed this just to provoke the Muslim community?
only the person in charge can answer that question, and only in their own mind would they honestly answer it. i can't say for a fact this is what they meant to do, but what else could you expect?
Originally posted by Corbett:
I'm not saying it was right for them to do it but I didn't hear the same thing from people when those paintings of Jesus with cow poop was released.
ok, so christians are more tolerant in some instances, but you also admit that it's not right. is there another point you're trying to make?
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Originally posted by BP:
Originally posted by Corbett:
Is it fact that they printed this just to provoke the Muslim community?
only the person in charge can answer that question, and only in their own mind would they honestly answer it. i can't say for a fact this is what they meant to do, but what else could you expect?
Originally posted by Corbett:
I'm not saying it was right for them to do it but I didn't hear the same thing from people when those paintings of Jesus with cow poop was released.
ok, so christians are more tolerant in some instances, but you also admit that it's not right. is there another point you're trying to make?
Maybe he's trying to say that Muslims shouldn't make cartoons of their prophet and punish any Muslim that does it, but if an "infidel" does then let Allah handle it. Otherwise, they're trying to impose their beliefs on others. We don't allow that in this country now do we...?
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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