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Originally posted by Kokorebellion:
Originally posted by bigMoneyRacing:
back on the topic of Hamas....
Seems as if it's the age-old problem of a population electing the party that is good for them but perceived poorly outside the country. Yes we can moan and groan, as many officials are doing, but what else are we going to do? Overturn a just election (77% turnout!!!) because we disagree with the result and it *may* adversely effect our relationship with that country? I hope that we're past that.
Exactly! Here we are (USA) marching the flag of democracy all over the world, and when a fair, democratic election takes place and the party that wins isn't one we like, we "have concern that bad stuff is going to happen now"
Give me a break! Who are we to decide what is best for another country, especially when a large majority of people voted?
Sure, the militant terrorist part of Hamas sucks. But have people ever realized that the only way Palestine is going to have anything "military" is to have guerilla participants? They don't have the capability to have a structured army and declare war, etc.
Who is to define the difference between "military conflict" and "terrorism"? To Hamas, the people that blow themselves up for a cause would be considered great soldiers. Nevermind that we might disagree on the reasons behind the actions. You have to look at it relatively.
Big pictures are better than small pictures.
-C
Wow. Just wow.
Ryan
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Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Wow. Just wow.
LMAO My favorite part was "Sure, the militant terrorist part of Hamas sucks. But ..."
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So what should we do Davo? Go in and take out Hamas and install our own guy?
-- 1999 SVT #220 --
In retrospect, it was all downhill from here. RIP, CEG.
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Originally posted by bigMoneyRacing:
So what should we do Davo? Go in and take out Hamas and install our own guy?
No, but sitting idly back isn't the answer too. Remember a group called the "Taliban"? Hamas is a terrorist organization, period. If they change their story and truly become a viable governing body, lets work with them. However, if they continue using violence as a means of influence, lets unleash Israel on them.
Ryan
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I agree with Ryan, them being elected now doesn't change the fact that they're a terrorist organization and should be dealt with as such. The burden is on them, not us, to make changes in order for any kind of productive relationship to develop.
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Originally posted by JaTo:
Right or wrong, people vote for who helps them most, regardless if they are bona fida terrorists or something else.
exactly. and i think they should be given a chance.
'03 Saab 9-5 Aero
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OP
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Originally posted by BP:
exactly. and i think they should be given a chance.
Fair enough, but it seems that some here are either ignoring or being rather dismissive of Hamas' past roles in indiscriminate bombings that have been targeted towards civilians. It's fine and dandy that some form of a Democratic process was enacted, but if the population that took a vote is putting into power a group that willingly and unabashedly associates itself with a means of force that the civilized world has denounced (i.e., terrorism), one has to ask what message are the Palestinians trying to send?
Are they supporting terrorism against Israel or anyone else that stands in their way with this vote, or are they supporting the removal of a corrupt and ineffective regime with one that has helped their plight? Maybe both?
I would hope that the majority of voters were more concerned about getting a crippled organization that was little better than a parasite on the backs of the Palestinians instead of making their own lives that much worse off by agitating Israel with a vote of confidence for Hamas. I also hope that the have someone in their ranks that can let the world know what the Palestianian people were trying to say with this vote...
If you recall, Hamas sees itself as two separate but interlinked organizations; one that is spiritual/political and one that is militant. Although their general goals are the same, they go about them in ENTIRELY different manners. The "claim" by both factions of Hamas is that the leadership is entirely different, though Israel certainly doesn't see it that way when they started bombing the political/spiritual faction's leaders during the last couple of years, as well as having a standing policy on knocking off any Hamas militants they run across...
What bothers me is that no matter what side of Hamas was voted for, their stated goal of seeing the destruction of Israel by any means necessary has NOT been changed. That's one common thread that both groups share...
My fear is that the leadership of Hamas will interpret this vote as a nod by the common Palestinian towards escalating the conflict when it may have been little more than just a massive protest vote against the PLO and their incessant bungling.
Tigers aren't known for changing their stripes, so I have serious doubts about Hamas making any legitimate moves towards peaceful coexistance with the Israelis. The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Hamas just got voted in so it's going to be interesting to see which side leads the dance.
JaTo
e-Tough Guy
Missouri City, TX
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00 Corvette Coupe
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Exactly JaTo. And the 'wait and see mentality' has bit us in the ass too many times before...
Ryan
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hasn't there been a "cease fire" for some time now? it would seem that future peace lies as much in the hands of how israel and the rest of the world responds to hamas taking control as does the role hamas looks to play in the future of palestinian gov. again, i believe the appropriate response is to give diplomacy a chance. it seems to be working as of recent. let them set the tone for how they want to be dealt with. taking drastic measures and strong posturing will do nothing but send the wrong message and get things off on the wrong foot imo. they know they have an opportunity to change paths, let them choose the path they want to take. i don't see the point in forcing or baiting them into a conflict. they'll have enough of a challenge dealing with the internal restructuring, not to mention operatives on both sides who don't want peace to last...
'03 Saab 9-5 Aero
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Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Exactly JaTo. And the 'wait and see mentality' has bit us in the ass too many times before...
so what's your suggestion? israel should pre-emptively attack and destroy palestine? the same scorched earth method that so many war supporters propose... sure, that will work wonders for future peace. 
'03 Saab 9-5 Aero
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