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Originally posted by Kokopellian:
We need to stop making their business our business.
Not realistic. At all.
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Originally posted by Davo:
Originally posted by Kokopellian:
We need to stop making their business our business.
Not realistic. At all.
Of course it isn't. At least not now anyway. That's why I said it was a WISH. Therefore, we'll be dealing with this terrorist B.S. for the rest of our lives at least. Pisses me off.  The entire mess just stinks.
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Originally posted by Kokopellian:
Originally posted by 98 SE:
Originally posted by Kokopellian:
I tend to care less and less about the Middle East as each day goes by. I would just like to get our troops home. Oh, and our dependence on their oil ceasing to exist would be number two on my list of wishes. Then we can leave them and their cesspool all to themselves.
The less we care, the more chance of a repeat 9/11.
Unless you consider ignorance to be bliss ...
Ignorance being bliss has nothing to do with it. There would have never been a 9/11 in the first place had we not been so embedded in their business over there.
Ah yes, it is our fault crazy ass Muslims attacked us. I love this view point! 
Ryan
Trollin!
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back on the topic of Hamas....
Seems as if it's the age-old problem of a population electing the party that is good for them but perceived poorly outside the country. Yes we can moan and groan, as many officials are doing, but what else are we going to do? Overturn a just election (77% turnout!!!) because we disagree with the result and it *may* adversely effect our relationship with that country? I hope that we're past that. I'm slightly optimistic Mahmoud Abbas can continue to influence Palestinian international policy in a peaceful manner. Until something happens otherwise there's no reason to throw in the towel on mid-east peace; yet.
I'm confused on how this turned into a discussion about oil. As far as I know Israel wasn't created so the U.S. could increase it's oil supply.
-- 1999 SVT #220 --
In retrospect, it was all downhill from here. RIP, CEG.
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Originally posted by bigMoneyRacing:
back on the topic of Hamas....
Seems as if it's the age-old problem of a population electing the party that is good for them but perceived poorly outside the country. Yes we can moan and groan, as many officials are doing, but what else are we going to do? Overturn a just election (77% turnout!!!) because we disagree with the result and it *may* adversely effect our relationship with that country? I hope that we're past that. I'm slightly optimistic Mahmoud Abbas can continue to influence Palestinian international policy in a peaceful manner. Until something happens otherwise there's no reason to throw in the towel on mid-east peace; yet.
I'm confused on how this turned into a discussion about oil. As far as I know Israel wasn't created so the U.S. could increase it's oil supply.
If they can do it peacefully, I would agree with you. However, I doubt HAMAS as it is will fully go that route. As I said before, it sounds as if they are going the route of AIAI in the Horn. Some of it is militant, some of it truly helps the people.
The oil thing came into play because decided to through in that and express how much he dislikes the Middle East and our dependency on their oil.
Ryan
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Those people don't seem to like Israel and Westerners.
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Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Originally posted by Kokopellian:
Originally posted by 98 SE:
Originally posted by Kokopellian:
I tend to care less and less about the Middle East as each day goes by. I would just like to get our troops home. Oh, and our dependence on their oil ceasing to exist would be number two on my list of wishes. Then we can leave them and their cesspool all to themselves.
The less we care, the more chance of a repeat 9/11.
Unless you consider ignorance to be bliss ...
Ignorance being bliss has nothing to do with it. There would have never been a 9/11 in the first place had we not been so embedded in their business over there.
Ah yes, it is our fault crazy ass Muslims attacked us. I love this view point!
Didn't say it was completely our fault, but we have to accept some responsibility whether we like it or not.
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Originally posted by Kokopellian:
Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Originally posted by Kokopellian:
Originally posted by 98 SE:
Originally posted by Kokopellian:
I tend to care less and less about the Middle East as each day goes by. I would just like to get our troops home. Oh, and our dependence on their oil ceasing to exist would be number two on my list of wishes. Then we can leave them and their cesspool all to themselves.
The less we care, the more chance of a repeat 9/11.
Unless you consider ignorance to be bliss ...
Ignorance being bliss has nothing to do with it. There would have never been a 9/11 in the first place had we not been so embedded in their business over there.
Ah yes, it is our fault crazy ass Muslims attacked us. I love this view point!
Didn't say it was completely our fault, but we have to accept some responsibility whether we like it or not.
The thing is, we can't EVER completely avoid being involved in Middle Eastern affairs. Even if you take oil out of the equation, you've got shipping and commerce concerns with the Suez Canal, the Red Sea, the Persian Gulf, the Strait of Hormuz, and more. Unless you're willing to completely give up the use of the Mediterranean Sea and Indian Ocean as shipping lanes, not to mention turn a blind eye to how those nations and peoples treat each other, then we'll have to be engaged in the region one way or another.
"Think of it, if you like, as a librarian with a G-string under the tweed." Clarkson on the Mondeo.
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Originally posted by bigMoneyRacing:
back on the topic of Hamas....
Seems as if it's the age-old problem of a population electing the party that is good for them but perceived poorly outside the country. Yes we can moan and groan, as many officials are doing, but what else are we going to do? Overturn a just election (77% turnout!!!) because we disagree with the result and it *may* adversely effect our relationship with that country? I hope that we're past that.
Exactly! Here we are (USA) marching the flag of democracy all over the world, and when a fair, democratic election takes place and the party that wins isn't one we like, we "have concern that bad stuff is going to happen now"
Give me a break! Who are we to decide what is best for another country, especially when a large majority of people voted?
Sure, the militant terrorist part of Hamas sucks. But have people ever realized that the only way Palestine is going to have anything "military" is to have guerilla participants? They don't have the capability to have a structured army and declare war, etc.
Who is to define the difference between "military conflict" and "terrorism"? To Hamas, the people that blow themselves up for a cause would be considered great soldiers. Nevermind that we might disagree on the reasons behind the actions. You have to look at it relatively.
Big pictures are better than small pictures.
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Originally posted by Kokorebellion:
Give me a break! Who are we to decide what is best for another country, especially when a large majority of people voted?
What makes you think we're deciding what's best for them? We call them a terrorist organization because the destruction of Israel is part of their platform. The destruction of Israel is bad for both us and Israel, so considering Hamas and treating Hamas as a terrorist organization is what is best for us, not them.
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