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The Big 3 built alot of junk in the 70's,80's and part of the 90's. This allowed the Japanese cars to catch up and surpass the domestics. NA cars today are quite good for the most part.
The UAW has siht kicked our auto industry over the last 25 years. The Asian car makers set up plants in States that have "right to work legislation". Unions in these states are non-existant. This makes for an unfair playing field. People who work in these plants only wish they had Union benefits. The Unions need to sign up these Automakers period. Or else our "Big 3" are finished - can't compete. Unions aren't going away, they need to get off their collective asses and level the field.


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Originally posted by SquareHead:
The Big 3 built alot of junk in the 70's,80's and part of the 90's. This allowed the Japanese cars to catch up and surpass the domestics. NA cars today are quite good for the most part.
The UAW has siht kicked our auto industry over the last 25 years. The Asian car makers set up plants in States that have "right to work legislation". Unions in these states are non-existant. This makes for an unfair playing field. People who work in these plants only wish they had Union benefits. The Unions need to sign up these Automakers period. Or else our "Big 3" are finished - can't compete. Unions aren't going away, they need to get off their collective asses and level the field.





wrong - you looking at this with a myoptic eye. You fail to realize that companies like Toyota have made their fortunes on people. They value their employees and the employees love them in return. Companies like Honda and Toyota do not hire people and then beat the living tar out of their will to live/work like most american companies. They hire their people as a non-renewable resource - a lifetime hire if you will. This strategy is an integral part of the Toyota Production System (AKA Lean Manufacturing).
Toyota doesnt for the most part directly hire union workers because they cannot be integrated in the the TPS, they cant be cross trained and cannot work the needed skill intensive positions required by the system. So - they hire non-union people and yes while their pay is starting lower they get more useful and valuable benifits from a company who actually wants them around for the future.


I agree with JaTo - again once again marvelously stated. Change is slowly working its way in. Things will get better, its ust going to take time. You have to realize that the japanese have been eliminating Muda (sp?) for more years than most american car maker execs have been in the business. Change takes time.


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Originally posted by SquareHead:
People who work in these plants only wish they had Union benefits. The Unions need to sign up these Automakers period. Or else our "Big 3" are finished - can't compete. Unions aren't going away, they need to get off their collective asses and level the field.





Not true at all. For example, the Toyota plant in Kentucky has had a vote to go union every year for the past six years. ANd it lost by a landslide every year. They don't want to be union. They have good pay, good healthcare, good benefits....without the union.

-Todd


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Originally posted by Horse:
You fail to realize that companies like Toyota have made their fortunes on people. They value their employees and the employees love them in return. Companies like Honda and Toyota do not hire people and then beat the living tar out of their will to live/work like most american companies. They hire their people as a non-renewable resource - a lifetime hire if you will. This strategy is an integral part of the Toyota Production System (AKA Lean Manufacturing).
Toyota doesnt for the most part directly hire union workers because they cannot be integrated in the the TPS, they cant be cross trained and cannot work the needed skill intensive positions required by the system. So - they hire non-union people and yes while their pay is starting lower they get more useful and valuable benifits from a company who actually wants them around for the future.


I agree with JaTo - again once again marvelously stated. Change is slowly working its way in. Things will get better, its ust going to take time. You have to realize that the japanese have been eliminating Muda (sp?) for more years than most american car maker execs have been in the business. Change takes time.





Right on! Man I havent heard Muda since my last Lean Manufacturing class! Ohno would be proud!


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Originally posted by Silver Snake:
Originally posted by SquareHead:
People who work in these plants only wish they had Union benefits. The Unions need to sign up these Automakers period. Or else our "Big 3" are finished - can't compete. Unions aren't going away, they need to get off their collective asses and level the field.





Not true at all. For example, the Toyota plant in Kentucky has had a vote to go union every year for the past six years. ANd it lost by a landslide every year. They don't want to be union. They have good pay, good healthcare, good benefits....without the union.

-Todd




Squarehead...unions have destroyed this country! They were a benefit for a pretty long time...beg of the 20th century, but in the past 20-30 years they have become so greedy that many and most US companies cannot afford to keep plants within the US. I will say this again...having a job is better than no job.


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Speaking of the 70s, My family and I had a few VWs over the years. The last of them in the early 80s because of the way they treated us and the product quality. I got the nastiest letter from them when I placed a claim to have them pay for failed valve stem seals at 27K miles. They accused me of not changing my oil, etc. Nothing is ever their fault. I joined a class action lawsuit against them and won. After this I wrote them a nasty-gram stating I hope the Japanese run them down into the ground. They still have not recovered from their arrogance. I drove the 2006 Hyundai Sonada when it came out and that car is nice and thousands less than a Camry and Accord.

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Ford's service after the sale used to be as bad as it gets, especially in the 80's. They had problems with the ignition modules that made some Fords very undependable. The service department could never find the problem. I replaced the ignition module myself after years of taking my car to Ford�s service department and paying $45 or $50 to have it checked. I would never buy another new Ford.

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Bill Ford: "My Goal Is To Fight Toyota"

Le Sigh.

Domestic makers need to get back and focus on making the best cars they can possible, not beating a moving target like a competitor. Their eye is so off the ball its not funny.

Get back to the basics and flesh them out and refine them; compacts,midsize,fullsize cars are your bread and butter.

I mean come on, Cobalt vs Civic vs Golf vs Corolla. If money wasn't an option would anybody pick a Cobalt ?

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Originally posted by ODC:
Bill Ford: "My Goal Is To Fight Toyota"

Le Sigh.

Domestic makers need to get back and focus on making the best cars they can possible, not beating a moving target like a competitor. Their eye is so off the ball its not funny.

Get back to the basics and flesh them out and refine them; compacts,midsize,fullsize cars are your bread and butter.

I mean come on, Cobalt vs Civic vs Golf vs Corolla. If money wasn't an option would anybody pick a Cobalt ?




That quote is taken out of context.

Bill said that his goal was "to fight Toyota and everyone else" and it was a direct response to the question of "Isn't Toyota going to rule the world?".

His full statement, to paraphrase, was "No, Toyota is not going to take over the world because Ford, for one, is done with lying here and taking it and we're finally going to do something about the imports kicking our collective asses".

His goal should be to fight Toyota. But his first goal, as he has enumerated several times, is to stop the marketshare slide. Not to gain any. Just to stabilize. From there you work on product quality and image, and you take on the competition. And you don't become the best in an industry by setting your sights to be better than the guy ranked right above you -- you set your sights on the #1 company in the business.

The automotive market is very saturated. He has to take on somebody. You don't sell cars to people that don't have one, you sell cars first and foremost to people that already buy your cars (which is why his first goal is to stabilize market share), then you sell cars to people that buy your competitor's cars -- and Ford's #1 competitor is Toyota. Ford loses more sales to Toyota than it does to any other manufacturer. Taking on Toyota doesn't preclude making good cars -- you don't take on Toyota without making the best cars possible.


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I completely disagree sigma.

Toyota isn't a standstill entity. It has a constantly evolving and growing product portfolio that Ford cannot anticipiate with certainty all the time.

I'll pose a scenario: Ford comes out with a midsize to be their Camry fighter, they do a pretty good job in doing so and they come out to market with it. Toyota with their quick refresh cycles comes out with a newer, better Camry -- all of a sudden Ford's Camry fighter is left in the dust quickly obseleted.

It also cultivates an image that the domestics are just mediocre copycats and not one of an innovative or progressive company.

In addition is breeds a corporate mentality of "good enough". You've beaten Toyota (or your competitor) so what do you do ? You sit on your laurels and dont' move forward.

Ford and GM need to attach those horse blinds to themselves. They need to just get down to work, trim the fat and focus on making their products as best they possibly can.

This is the absolute worst corporate mentality possible. If that kind of thinking is coming from your head person, he does not have the leadership to guide a company like Ford.


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