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Wow... I feel lazy compared to you guys!

I dunno, but for some reason I don't like going to the gym (even though it's free). All I do is PT 3 times a week and I'm good.

I have thought about trying to go to the gym here, but I don't really see the point.


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Originally posted by TodrasByAssociation:
Originally posted by Wien_Sean:
Originally posted by platinum_drew:

protein whey is good, but 80 grams is an aweful lot. most have around 20-25g a serving, and really, an extra 25 grams of protein every workout will yeild results anyway. don't count on it making you much stronger though, mostly just to add weight and muscle mass (which are not directly related to strength). to the person who said they noticed results with protein after a month, you probably would've have the same results w/o the protein.




I know 80 grams is a lot but that's what I was up to and I was told that was a lot I droped to 60 then 40. I was also crapping a lot of that out, I was crapping a lot more than normal but 80 was the limit I was told. I was lifting three to six hours a day, depending on the day, and 40 grams did the same as 80. God to think I was in that kind of shape then. I still weight the same and look the same but man to be back to lifting and squating...and running...makes me want to start running again.... Maybe there will be a thread in a month talking about that same




Are you talking about 80 grams of supplememnt protein, or a combined total including dietary? If so 80 isn't that much. I read that You're supposed to have between 1-1.25 grams/per pound of your body weight of protein a day. Which for me is about 250 grams a day! Which is almost impossible to achieve with just dietary intake.




I was talking 80 grams of supplememnt protein. I was getting plenty with what I was eating. As always I eat eggs and meat all the time and when I was working out I ate a lot more than normal. Lots of lean meat, what can I say I am a carnivore.


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Originally posted by deftoned989:
There have been no documented studies showing that creatine supplementation is bad for your body, let alone that is suppresses natural production of it.



I didn't say creatine supplementation suppresses natural production of it. If you supplement creatine for more than the 2 months on/1 month off cycle, your body becomes dependent on the supplement. Then when you stop using it, your body doesn't produce it like it needs to. That is different from supression.

Again, supplementing anything your body is supposed to create is bad news.

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Originally posted by Davo:
Originally posted by deftoned989:
There have been no documented studies showing that creatine supplementation is bad for your body, let alone that is suppresses natural production of it.



I didn't say creatine supplementation suppresses natural production of it. If you supplement creatine for more than the 2 months on/1 month off cycle, your body becomes dependent on the supplement. Then when you stop using it, your body doesn't produce it like it needs to. That is different from supression.

Again, supplementing anything your body is supposed to create is bad news.




I guess you should stop eating red meat then, since creatine is found in that.

I guess the question you have to ask yourself is...is the human body creating enough creatine, testosterone, etc to begin with for an intense bodybuilder? IMHO, no.


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Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
I guess you should stop eating red meat then, since creatine is found in that.



Wow. This thread must be inspiring people to forget how to read. Is eating red meat supplementing creatine? Are the concentration level in a hamburger equal to that of a tablespoon of creatine? Is the only nutritional benefit of red meat to get creatine?

Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
I guess the question you have to ask yourself is...is the human body creating enough creatine, testosterone, etc to begin with for an intense bodybuilder? IMHO, no.



If it's not, then you're probably not meant to be a bodybuilder. Which is precisely my point.

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Originally posted by Davo:

If it's not, then you're probably not meant to be a bodybuilder. Which is precisely my point.




Well then I have to ask the question. If the amount of natural creatine in the body is so small that you cant even make gains working out, then to me it seems like having it replaced by a supplement seems like no big deal since the body was making minimal creatine to begin with??

Either way, I have no intentions of going on creatine. I noticed absolutely zero gains from it. Im just curious.


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Then if you go on creatine, your body will slow/stop its production. So if you were low on creatine to begin with, slowing or stopping its natural production is not a good idea. Fine if you want to take creatine for the rest of your life, but who the hell wants to do that.

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Originally posted by Davo:
If you supplement creatine for more than the 2 months on/1 month off cycle, your body becomes dependent on the supplement. Then when you stop using it, your body doesn't produce it like it needs to.




That pretty much defines suppression of natural creatine production, but whatever, do you have a link to any research documenting this? I'd be curious to read it if this is true.


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go see a doctor before you start taking creatine. i have seen a few young men here in the hospital with kidney failure and on dialysis and one even on a ventilator who died because he screwed his metabolic system up!!!! you have a normal creatine level in your body(0.6-1.2),any more and you risk kidney damage!


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There seems to be quite a bit of confusion about creatine and protein supplementation. Both if done properly are probably the safest and most used supplements in the world today.

Creatine is creatine...nothing was removed from it back a ways to make it safer. You are confusing it with Ephedra based weight loss/energy supplements where the FDA banned the use of Ephedra and it was removed from these type of supplements. Sadly once again if used properly the Ephedra based supplements were excellent for energy and weight loss and they have been used for nearly 30 years before somebody decided to band Ephedra. But simple over the counter decongestant/antihistamine medicine such as Sudaphed contains more Ephedrine then the sports supplements, go figure...still another subject.

I have been running a gym for the last 4-5 years and working out on and off over the last 30 years. I have used Creatine for about 5 years straight with absolutely no side affects whatsoever aside from some additional farting but hey who really cares about that all that much. Creatine is a amino acid that the body creates and is also acquired from red meat. The amounts to give increased energy and strength benefits would require impossible amounts of beef to be ingested daily. With the powder form of creatine you can get the benefits by taking 3-10 grams per day depending on your physical size. Creatine use draws water into the muscles and hydrates them...when working out muscle failure comes as the muscle dehydrates/runs out of steam. With creatine the muscle holds more water and allows you to go the extra yard sort of like a second wind. If you can push harder set after set and squeeze in more reps with heavier weight without fatigue you will get bigger and stronger. The creatine dose not make you grow it allows you to push harder longer to get more out of tour workout and with the proper nutrition you will grow.

example:
without creatine...
Bench Press using the same weight for 3 sets say 6-8 reps
set 1: 225 x 8
set 2: 225 x 7
set 3: 225 x 6

with creatine...
set 1: 225 x 8
set 2: 225 x 9 the 2nd wind effect
set 3: 225 x 9-10 the 2nd wind effect

2nd and 3rd sets tend to be stronger in most cases so you can move up in weight the get into your 6-8 rep range...you get stronger and bigger as a result.

If you stop using creatine it simply takes a few weeks to get out of your system and you will only lose the 2nd wind. Your body doesn't stop producing it nor do you need to use it for the rest of your life. It was once recommended to use creatine for 8-12 weeks and then take 3-4 weeks off to give the body a break. this has since been proven not to be necessary. Creatine has been studied more than any other supplement out there and has time and time again been proven to work and not cause any serious side effects if used properly. The main key to creatine use is the need to consume lots of water...one to as much as two gallons per day especially on workout days. Some of the related problem that have been reported come from individuals using creatine and not taking in enough water. Dehydration comes into play and so do muscle cramps and possible strains. If you drink a lot of soda/coffee you need to up your water intake as these are diuretics and will contribute to dehydration. Drink lots of water and you will be fine...if you spend a lot of time in the gym you will almost never see many serious lifter without a water bottle in and outside of the gym.

Lots of info on creatine here...
http://www.creatinemonohydrate.net/
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bbinfo.php?page=Creatine
http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/articles_search_results.asp?SearchCriteria=creatine&Submit=Search&SearchType=All&page=1

As for what type of creatine to use...stick with pure creatine powder and mix it with your favorite sports drink immediately after your workout as your muscle will be at their peak for absorbsion and starving for replenishment.
Most name brands a good don't go to cheap and go for the micronized as it is much easier on the stomach and easier to absorb. STAY AWAY FROM LIQUID CREATINE PERIOD...creatine is not stable in a liquid and it will convert to creatanine the waste product of creatine. Tests have shown the Liquid Creatine Serums contain little if any creatine at all...mostly creatanine

As for Protein it is needed to build muscle plain and simple. If you want to grow you will need to take in 1.5-2 grams of protein per pound of body weight per day to grow. To maintain a male needs to take in around 1 gram of protein per day to maintain strength and size while working out. As you get bigger you will need to up you protein intake accordingly. Once you are happy where you are in size adjust your protein to a maintenance amount of ~1 gram per pound of body weight and you will stop growing and maintain your size. Protein should be spread out evenly into 5-6 meals per day to work properly. Your body can handle 40-60 grams of protein per meal without any problem anything over that is not dangerous it will just be passed off unused. Protein supplementation can be had in protein bars, powders, and meal replacements. They should be combined with natural protein rich foods such as; chicken, fish, red meat, dairy products, etc. Protein rich meals should be taken about every 2-3 hours in a day. Early meals shout include more carbs then late meals, also early should be simple carbs (fruit, juice, etc...high in sugar) for energy throughout the day. Late meals should only be complex carbs (wheat product, broccoli, brown rice etc...low in sugars). The last meal of the day should not include any carbs as they will lay in you stomach and convert to fat over night. The last meal (all protein) is for muscle repair and growth over night while you sleep since you will not have any more meals for the next 7-8 hours (muscles grow while you rest and sleep so feed them well before you go to bed).

Example:
Meal 1: Morning 6:00-7:00 (eggs, oatmeal, milk, cereal, protein shake, etc.
Meal 2: late morning 9:00-10:00 (yogurt, cottage cheese, protein bar, meal replacement, etc.)
Meal 3: Lunch 12:00-1:00 (chicken, tuna, meat, protein shake , etc.)
Meal 4: 3:00-4:00 p.m. (meal replacement, protein bar, yogurt, cottage cheese, etc.)
Workout 6:00
Meal 5: Dinner within 30 minutes of workout, very important (chicken, tuna, meat, protein shake , etc.)
Meal 6: before bed 10:00-11:00 p.m. very important (protein shake with water 30-40 grams)

As for name brands of protein Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey Chocolate is one of the best tasting, mixing, and value for your money out there. I have tried just about every protein mix there is and always come back to Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey Chocolate as have many of my friends. You can't go wrong and I have never met anybody that didn't like the taste. The other flavors are good too...I like to get the strawberry from time to time to mix it up a little but chocolate is by far my favorite. The 10 lb bag is the best deal period. Shop around and you will fine sales on this from time to time that can't be beat... Here is an example: http://www.musclemaster.com/content/s-product.asp?visitid=C40912479&detail=OP-098

That's my 2 cents take it or leave it...HTH


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