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Originally posted by platinum_drew:
protein whey is good, but 80 grams is an aweful lot. most have around 20-25g a serving, and really, an extra 25 grams of protein every workout will yeild results anyway. don't count on it making you much stronger though, mostly just to add weight and muscle mass (which are not directly related to strength). to the person who said they noticed results with protein after a month, you probably would've have the same results w/o the protein.
I know 80 grams is a lot but that's what I was up to and I was told that was a lot I droped to 60 then 40. I was also crapping a lot of that out, I was crapping a lot more than normal but 80 was the limit I was told. I was lifting three to six hours a day, depending on the day, and 40 grams did the same as 80. God to think I was in that kind of shape then. I still weight the same and look the same but man to be back to lifting and squating...and running...makes me want to start running again.... Maybe there will be a thread in a month talking about that same 
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Originally posted by turbotrix:
Originally posted by loggerbomb:
ok this thread gives me a chance to ask a question or two i got in my head after reading a mens health magazine. In it it said that too much cardio drops testosterone output for some unsaid length of time, so how much should you do? When should you do it? before or after a weight training session? The mag also said to not too too many muscle specific exercises and do more core exercises, so should you do the major muscle group exrecises first? or the specific muscle exercises first?
lets see if i can help ya here
cardio for most 10-20 min just get your heart rate up
jump on the eliptical or some thing ..
and do it before your work out .
also pick a muscle group for each day
say like
monday : chest
tues: back
weds : rest
thurs : quads , hamstrings,calves
fri : shoulders
sat: rest
sun : arms
some thing along these lines ..
some ppl say different but each to there own what ever works for that person
sorry to hijack or anything, but i do know to cycle the muscle groups, but do you do isolated exercises first? or after the basic exercises, like squats than leg extensions, or leg extensions than squats?
95 Merc Stique
Zetec 2.0 Auto
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OP
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Originally posted by Wien_Sean:
Originally posted by platinum_drew:
protein whey is good, but 80 grams is an aweful lot. most have around 20-25g a serving, and really, an extra 25 grams of protein every workout will yeild results anyway. don't count on it making you much stronger though, mostly just to add weight and muscle mass (which are not directly related to strength). to the person who said they noticed results with protein after a month, you probably would've have the same results w/o the protein.
I know 80 grams is a lot but that's what I was up to and I was told that was a lot I droped to 60 then 40. I was also crapping a lot of that out, I was crapping a lot more than normal but 80 was the limit I was told. I was lifting three to six hours a day, depending on the day, and 40 grams did the same as 80. God to think I was in that kind of shape then. I still weight the same and look the same but man to be back to lifting and squating...and running...makes me want to start running again.... Maybe there will be a thread in a month talking about that same
Are you talking about 80 grams of supplememnt protein, or a combined total including dietary? If so 80 isn't that much. I read that You're supposed to have between 1-1.25 grams/per pound of your body weight of protein a day. Which for me is about 250 grams a day!  Which is almost impossible to achieve with just dietary intake.
** Mike **
"You might beat me in a straight line, but I'll embarass you in the turns"
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Originally posted by loggerbomb:
sorry to hijack or anything, but i do know to cycle the muscle groups, but do you do isolated exercises first? or after the basic exercises, like squats than leg extensions, or leg extensions than squats?
i would suggest doing leg extensions then squats. With me, my knees really hurt if I jump right into doing squats. I like to warm them up first and then do the heavy stuff like squats and leg presses.
Jim Hahn
1996 T-Red Contour SE Reborn 4/6/04
3.0L swap and Arizona Dyno Chip Turbo Kit
364 whp, 410 wtq @ 4,700 rpm
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I use Optimum Nutrition Double Rich Chocolate and Vanilla Ice Cream, though I think the latter has been discontinued. I've posted my routine (though it's changed since then) and my nutrition plan, so you can search for that if you'd like to see what it is.
My #1 rule about supplements is to not supplement something your body creates (creatine being the best example). As someone stated, improper use of creatine could make your body dependent on the supplemented creatine, which is bad news unless you feel like forcing that crap down your throat for the rest of your life.
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Originally posted by loggerbomb:
sorry to hijack or anything, but i do know to cycle the muscle groups, but do you do isolated exercises first? or after the basic exercises, like squats than leg extensions, or leg extensions than squats?
Since squats work more/better muscle, I suggest doing those first, when you have the most energy. Leg extensions are good exercises, but you don't want your squat to suffer for the benefit of only your quads.
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Originally posted by Davo:
My #1 rule about supplements is to not supplement something your body creates (creatine being the best example). As someone stated, improper use of creatine could make your body dependent on the supplemented creatine, which is bad news unless you feel like forcing that crap down your throat for the rest of your life.
There have been no documented studies showing that creatine supplementation is bad for your body, let alone that is suppresses natural production of it. Yes if you take over the recommended amount it isn't good, but nothing is good for you in excess. Creatine used properly can really help improve the workouts of a lot of people.
Give creatine a shot, but use Creatine Ethyl Ester instead of monohydrate. If you like the results, stick with it.
99 Silver CSVT
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Hmmm, well as long as there is so much physical fitness knowledge in here, I might as well chime in! I'm by no means lifting for muscle mass, but it'd be nice to see those gains. My workout routine is running 2-4 miles a day at a 6:00/mile pace. MWF I'll workout upper body and some core, and TR I'll do legs and some more core. I try to eat a meal of meat a day and some good complex carbs. I take Calcium and a Performance Multivitamin from Sam's Club daily. The Multivitamin is just to get all the nutrients I need, and the Calcium is to hopefully strengthen my bones as much as possible as to avoid injury during the 6 weeks of fun in Virginia for training for Marine Officer School. I've heard that shin splints and stress fractures can put you out of commission in a heartbeat, and I sure am not putting all this work in just to get NPQ'ed during OCS. Do you think seeing muscle mass is a realistic goal for my type of training/workout? I'm mostly just trying to become as fast as I can, and as strong as I can, without putting so much weight that will slow me down. So, what does everyone think?
As far as protein and creatine goes, I can't say much, as both are more for developing mass, whereas I'm working for strength and lean mass, which is a bit different from just muscle mass.
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For your workout routine, you're burning a lot of calories running, and depending on your BMI and metabolic rate, you need well over 2000 calories, more in the 3k -4k range if you want to see muscle gains. Personally I need to eat around 6k calories a day to gain weight.
Since you're going for speed over strength, when lifting I'd say do in the range of 12-15 reps per set. If you want to mix it up ( a good idea when lifting, because your muscles easily fall into routine and it's good to hit them with something new) do large weight/low rep (5-8 rep range per set).
If you're really interested, I have scans out of Muscle and Fitness magazine which shows a bunch of different workouts that fit any desired level of muscle gain.
bottomline: Eat eat eat (healthy of course) to see good muscle gains and workout regularly.
99 Silver CSVT
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I've been working out for 1.5 years. I have gained 20 lbs of muscle in that time without any type of supplements. I eat about 3 dozen eggs a week, steaks, chicken, pork chops, tuna, etc. I also eat all my fruits n veggies. I really wanna step it up and put on another 10 - 15 before say May. This thread has given me some ideas. I just ordered some of the AS Myo pro whey that Jim said tasted like Strawberry McD's shakes. Taste was my biggest issue and I really didn't have the time to research with all that I have going on. I hit the gym about 5 days a week. I also take Tai Kwon Do. The only thing missing from my life is a GF that is a kinesiology major.  And those 15 lbs!  Hopefully I will see some results from the protein. 
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