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Joined: Jun 2001
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Originally posted by Rara:
There was a time in this country when unions were needed; when the everage person was being abused by the few big employers out there. That time has long since passed. On the average, unions these days are a detriment to thier respective industries, and are only out to serve the desires of the union officials.
The American auto industry is a prime example; where on the average, the union culture promotes poor workmanship and higher product costs. If it continues unchecked, the modern auto unions will run the American car companies completely into the ground.*
* - Note that unions certainly aren't the only problem that american carmakers have, but they are a very big one.
well said and I whole heartedly agree.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 177
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
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The time has come for the Unions to go. A good example was that Forklift driver at Delfi that was making over 100K with over time and filed bankruptcy because he dropped to 80K. The Union got him that kind of money. He was moving car parts not hazmat or Nuc weapons. I ran a forklift in a meat processing plant and made $7.00 an hour and I was in a Union to, just not a good one. Unions have gotten people over payed for their work for years. Running a forklift is not a 100K a year job, I don't care how long you have been doing it.
98 Tropic Green Contour 2.5 MTX
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Who in their right mind would pay a forklift operator 100K a year? Are you sure you read the info right?
95 Contour GL. Bought new.
BAT Sway Bars/Pioneer CD/Koni Rear Struts/Mobil Fluids.
Looking for 15" alloy rims-PM me.
180,500km's so far.
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Joined: May 2000
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Hard-core CEG'er
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unions are good and serve a large roll in workers being paid fairly, in general.
Oo (xxx)oO
o xxxxxxxx o
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,882
Highly Medicated Member
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Highly Medicated Member
Joined: Aug 2000
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Originally posted by SquareHead:
Who in their right mind would pay a forklift operator 100K a year? Are you sure you read the info right?
The Big Three via UAW negotiated contracts. It's actually about $70K pay and $30k in benefits. These legacy costs are a big part of what is killing Detroit. The Big 3 should have put their collective feet down 30 years ago and said NFW! Instead the UAW became so powerful and production so important to the OEM's that the UAW got it's way. 30 years late we find our 100K a year fork lift driver with barely a High School education earning more than twice what a 3rd grade teacher makes. He's also making more than most engineers with a college degree and 5 years of experience.
I'm not blaming the unions, or the Fork lift driver. I point squarely at the Big 3 for not having the cajones to stand up to the UAW 30 years ago.
Now look at the repercussions. Every national and regional publicatio I read (outside of SE Michigan say the economy is moving in the right direction. Life in this town is damn scary, dismal and gloomy. Few, and I mean very few, jobs in the Automotive industry are secure - white collar or Blue
Add to our legacy cost problem the problem in the number of QUALITY product offerings from Detroit. Design quality, Manufaturing quality and Materials Quality.
What's happening in Detroit currently is the same old same old. A cycle of in and out, good and bad. The big three need to ditch the cycle and follow a trend. Upwards.
An example is DCX. They were really onto something with design - the Magnum and 300C are fantastic designs. The public ate it up, in spite of traditional powertrain worries. Mercedes helped the manufaturing quality improve and DCX started selling. Now look what DCX has in the pipe - some lamo designs, they paeked and are now riding the downside of the cycle wheel. Ford? Well, they nailed the retro Mustang. (it worked so well that DCX followed with Charger and Challenger, now GM is going to do it even better with the Camaro)
Why did they give us the oh so bland 500. Now the trend in design is moving in the right direction; Fusion/Milan/Zypher and Edge/MKX. To bad they have no power under the hood. GM? Captain Plastic fantastic. The materials used just plain feel cheap. They were onto something with the 16, but failed to follow through. They did nail the Solstice though - on many levels. Design, value, performance all there. Lutz and the Behmoth ARE capable, but it seems in small numbers and GM is not a small company.
The axes are falling as we speak. Good luck to all in SEMI - the ripple effect will suck. IF we survive, I see a bright future here. Just a smaller horizon.
Semper Fi
"They've got us surrounded. Poor bastards." -Chesty
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Joined: Jul 2005
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CEG\'er
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Originally posted by SquareHead:
Who in their right mind would pay a forklift operator 100K a year? Are you sure you read the info right?
That is correct, his base was 80K+ with overtime 100K+
98 Tropic Green Contour 2.5 MTX
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,231
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Posts: 1,231 |
Originally posted by Trapps:
Originally posted by SquareHead:
Who in their right mind would pay a forklift operator 100K a year? Are you sure you read the info right?
The Big Three via UAW negotiated contracts. It's actually about $70K pay and $30k in benefits. These legacy costs are a big part of what is killing Detroit. The Big 3 should have put their collective feet down 30 years ago and said NFW! Instead the UAW became so powerful and production so important to the OEM's that the UAW got it's way. 30 years late we find our 100K a year fork lift driver with barely a High School education earning more than twice what a 3rd grade teacher makes. He's also making more than most engineers with a college degree and 5 years of experience.
I'm not blaming the unions, or the Fork lift driver. I point squarely at the Big 3 for not having the cajones to stand up to the UAW 30 years ago.
Now look at the repercussions. Every national and regional publicatio I read (outside of SE Michigan say the economy is moving in the right direction. Life in this town is damn scary, dismal and gloomy. Few, and I mean very few, jobs in the Automotive industry are secure - white collar or Blue
Add to our legacy cost problem the problem in the number of QUALITY product offerings from Detroit. Design quality, Manufaturing quality and Materials Quality.
What's happening in Detroit currently is the same old same old. A cycle of in and out, good and bad. The big three need to ditch the cycle and follow a trend. Upwards.
An example is DCX. They were really onto something with design - the Magnum and 300C are fantastic designs. The public ate it up, in spite of traditional powertrain worries. Mercedes helped the manufaturing quality improve and DCX started selling. Now look what DCX has in the pipe - some lamo designs, they paeked and are now riding the downside of the cycle wheel. Ford? Well, they nailed the retro Mustang. (it worked so well that DCX followed with Charger and Challenger, now GM is going to do it even better with the Camaro)
Why did they give us the oh so bland 500. Now the trend in design is moving in the right direction; Fusion/Milan/Zypher and Edge/MKX. To bad they have no power under the hood. GM? Captain Plastic fantastic. The materials used just plain feel cheap. They were onto something with the 16, but failed to follow through. They did nail the Solstice though - on many levels. Design, value, performance all there. Lutz and the Behmoth ARE capable, but it seems in small numbers and GM is not a small company.
The axes are falling as we speak. Good luck to all in SEMI - the ripple effect will suck. IF we survive, I see a bright future here. Just a smaller horizon.
im sure glad i work for a HONDA supplier!
got to add, lets not just say its wrong that a forklift driver gets paid 2x more than a 3rd grade teacher, how bout them pro athletes! Now that really makes me want to puke.
95 Merc Stique
Zetec 2.0 Auto
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Yeah, but at least the pro atheletes making absurd amounts of money are working for organizations that are making absurd amounts of money. It's only fair that they get a fair share of the pie. It's one thing to make $100,000/yr driving a forklift at a company that's making $20B/year in profit, it's a whole 'nother thing to make that much for that work at a company losing that much every year.
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It seem there is quite a few comments from non-union side of workforce. I'd like to see someone jump in speaking from the union side. I'd especially interested to hear from likes of the "$100K/year forklift driver" point of view.
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