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Originally posted by Kyle Miller:
actually, if you knew any hebrew, the word did not mean fermented juice from grapes, and if you care to disagree, tell me where you find wine in the wilderness by yourself?!
Actually, I'm Jewish and can read hebrew. many jewish holidays call for the consumption of wine, and jesus (as well as everyone else from that time)obviously consumed wine as well.
EDIT
Also, we are called upon to drink "the fruit of the vine." That is literally what the hebrew word means. Since preserving grape juice was impossible in ancient times, it was fermented into wine.
AND
From a quick google search:
Wine - The common Hebrew word for wine is yayin, from a root meaning "to boil up," "to be in a ferment."
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Originally posted by Kyle Miller:
again, i think god knew the effects of everything ;ong before we did...
This is true, but Jesus and God are not one in the same. Jesus did not know everything that God did, therefore could not have known whether smoking weed (or smoking anything else for that matter) would be harmful.
And remember that the 'harming of the temple' is a Christian tenement. And Christianity didn't exist until after Jesus died. Jesus was a Jew, and therefore could freely consume alcohol, and presumably even marijuana, without commiting a sin. Unless, of course, you believe that Jews, because they believe that one can consume alcohol (as do the vast majority of Christians and Christian religions for that matter) are all heathens and will burn in hell for bringing harm to their temple.
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The word "wine" is mentioned 200+ times in the King James Bible. In the Old Testament there are 3 Hebrew words that are all translated as â??wineâ?.
YAYIN: Intoxicating, fermented wine (Genesis 9:21).
TIROSH: Fresh grape juice (Proverbs 3:10).
SHAKAR: Intoxicating, intensely alcoholic, strong drink (often referred to other intoxicants than wine) (Numbers 28:7).
the wine Jesus drinks of is grape juice!!
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if im not mistaken, Jews believe that if its not in the 10 commandments then it is not a sin.. i know plenty of Jewish people who love to smoke the green  i havent smoked any in about 10 years but i can tell you that the effects of smoking pot are comparable to the effects of drinking alchohol, only less. alchohol will impair your abilities much more and for a longer period of time. not to mention the long term effects. im not saying that marijuana doesnt have any negative effects, it does, but they are much less than cigarretes or alchohol when used on an equal level. if i was concerned about cancer, i wouldnt smoke. if i was concerned about my liver, i wouldnt drink. if your concerned about the effects of weed, then dont smoke it. as far as stoned people not making any sense, that's just plain dumb. ive been around many, many people who were stoned and they werent crawling on the floor like drunk-arse idiots 
Originally posted by Tourgasm:
Sometimes you can mess up a word so bad that spell check doens't know what the hell you're talking about.
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jesus did know all that god knew, the world was made through him... he was there at the beginning of time when "God made the heavens and the earth and all that was in them"
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oh boy, here we go again 
Originally posted by Tourgasm:
Sometimes you can mess up a word so bad that spell check doens't know what the hell you're talking about.
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http://www.learnthebible.org/doctrine_jesus_and_wine.htm a brilliant essay that can certainly help you understand!!
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well, this is a car forum, you can find this argument at holyrollerz.org forum, thats where we had this argument before, and somehow, no surpriuse to me, it didnt change anyones opinions, i mean, people without God will always believe whatever they want to, like those who think we came from apes.
good luck, and god bless, why waste time when it wont change the truth, no matter what it is!
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Originally posted by Kyle Miller:
The word "wine" is mentioned 200+ times in the King James Bible. In the Old Testament there are 3 Hebrew words that are all translated as â??wineâ?.
YAYIN: Intoxicating, fermented wine (Genesis 9:21).
TIROSH: Fresh grape juice (Proverbs 3:10).
SHAKAR: Intoxicating, intensely alcoholic, strong drink (often referred to other intoxicants than wine) (Numbers 28:7).
the wine Jesus drinks of is grape juice!!
So because all 3 are given the same translation you pick the 1 out of 3 that you want? The mere fact that there is a distinction in the Hebrew proves that actually was thought put into using the correct word in the correct context, irregardless of what the oft-mistranslated KJV Bible says. Now, find the passage in Hebrew where it says that Jesus turned water into "Tirosh" and not "Yayin". I don't think you'll find it.
Simple question -- if Jesus was indeed just drinking fresh grape juice (which was a rarity in biblical times, but that would make the creation of it more special, which does lend credence to your argument) then how could anyone accuse him of being a drunkard as was written in the Bible? You dont accuse grape juice drinkers of being drunkards.
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Originally posted by Kyle Miller:
well, this is a car forum, you can find this argument at holyrollerz.org forum, thats where we had this argument before, and somehow, no surpriuse to me, it didnt change anyones opinions, i mean, people without God will always believe whatever they want to, like those who think we came from apes.
The problem with that statement is that abotu 98% of the people that are "with God" still don't believe that the consumption of alcohol is a sin.
Catholics (and since they were the first major group of Christians I'd believe if anyone was going to get it 'right' by the scripture it would be them) believe that not only is the consumption of alcohol not a sin, you consume it as the transubstantiated blood of Christ. That's about as far away from 'drinking alcohol is a sin' as it gets.
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