|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
Originally posted by CSVT#49:
So if I where to put a turbo system on my car and leave the engines internals as is with the 10:1 compression and were to run say 7-8psi I would be more then fine and have no reason to worry if I had the system tuned correctly?
I'm looking to keep my car a reliable daily driver and still have the capability of putting up some pretty decent competition with a potential of producing 250-300fwhp?
I wouldn't be just putting on a turbo system either I would also be upgrading to 24#? injectors, MSDS headers, port matching the UIM & LIM, bigger TB & MAF, etc.
Basically I would like this car to last me at least another 70k or more.
So wait, I don't get this.
You do want 500 HP and are gonna get it,
Or you DON'T?
Once you figure out what you want we can help better.
If you want a reliable daily driver and 250-300 wHP, you will have no problems with a stock motor as long as its tuned and of 2000+pistons.
Any 3L turbo is likely to start in the 280s at the wheels and just go up from there if you have even a half assed intercooler on it. Reliability comes in from the tuning primarily, the overall design, and the amount of power you are extracting...the boost pressures if you will.
Run 25psi no intercooler and no matter how well tuned you are it will blow.
So if 300 wHP is your goal new goal then build a 2.5L with a bigger turbo than what ADC supplies, or a 3L and put on turbo.
You can put down 300 wHP on the transmission with a new ATB diff. and axles and I can't imagine breaking anything unless something has a flaw. 30# -39# injector range will cover you well from 300-400 whP. The intercooler must be big enough, the MAF must be big enough.
So here is what you do. You make a decision matrix first.
This is a list of the 5 most important things you want to do to you car, such as minimum power level you want to achieve, cost, fuel economy, reliability, etc.
Then assign a number to each and rank them in priority.
Then see what it takes to make that rank order a reality.
If power is a number one and cost is a number two, then you can only go so far with one before it affects the other, and same for reliability.
So I'm saying, 'Get Organized' lay out some goals, make some choices, lay out the parts you've got and figure out if its better to use or sell them, and then go from there.
If you need any help then tell us where you are at, the problem and you'll get honest answers.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 636
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
OP
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 636 |
Originally posted by warmonger:
So here is what you do. You make a decision matrix first.
This is a list of the 5 most important things you want to do to you car, such as minimum power level you want to achieve, cost, fuel economy, reliability, etc.
Then assign a number to each and rank them in priority.
Then see what it takes to make that rank order a reality.
Class is back in session! Very well put I learned that method in my last machine design class my senior year when I was studying for my BSME.
I've skimmed through the previous posts while searching the topic to see what people have done. I didn't read to indepth as this is something I plan to do late summer or maybe leave it as a winter project for next year. However all these answers I've been getting are exactly what I was hoping to get. I'm sort of building a baseline for where I want to start. I actually have a halfassed matrix setup, but nothing to the extent that your talking about. I just basically drew out who has what for turbo kits/ SC kits, possible engine upgrades to match kits and setups, basic bolt ons to support the system chosen, etc.
I'll post later with a more indepth decision matrix, because its a good idea to have one for this since it's going to be so much money and time invested. However just off the top of my head heres what I'm thinking:
Priority
1- driveablity/reliablity
2- performance
3- cost
-Mike
98 Contour SVT
Toreador Red #49 of 6535 Built on 3/25/97
WR Headers, Borla Cat-Back, Torsen T2 LSD, K&N Short Ram, S-AFC and Focus Shift Tower
85 Camaro
1969 358ci, 97 TA interior, 91 Z28 GrdEfx and Aero Wing 255rwhp
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602 |
Originally posted by CSVT#49:
Priority
1- driveablity/reliablity
2- performance
3- cost
Your list stacks up as the setup I've seen advised before in this thread.
A small intercooled turbo (T28 range) at 7-8psi. Remember your 98 has the weaker piston design.
Personally I would recommend a well built oval port 3L over the more expensive turbo setup. Then if you wanted to turbo it later you would have a better base in which to do it.
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 636
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
OP
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 636 |
A good point. I wish I would have just gotten on this board sooner and learned more about the car before I jumped into it. I bought this car for $600 with a blown motor. I just replaced it with another 98 SVT engine. Sold off the UIM/LIM and TB to make my money back. Had I known what I do now I would have bought a 3L to begin with.
Anyhow if I was to go forward with a setup such as the T28 7-8psi boost range I could transfer all of it to a 3L correct? I mean if thats the case well if the motor handles the power for a few years and blows, well I could just put a 3L in at that point.
However I'd like to use what I have now since I've gone through the trouble of getting everything up and running. Although since this is a ways off (late summer, next winter) I could probably pick up a 3.0L between now and then. I've seen them go for pretty cheap with low miles, $300-$500. But that would be a whole new ball game. From what I've seen theres different headaches with different year motors, decisions on straight interchange versus hybrids, etc. So I would have to look more indepth on that to see what all is involved. As of right now though this car is my daily driver. I plan to purchase a small truck for late summer to drive in the following winter. That way I can store both my Camaro and my SVT.
-Mike
98 Contour SVT
Toreador Red #49 of 6535 Built on 3/25/97
WR Headers, Borla Cat-Back, Torsen T2 LSD, K&N Short Ram, S-AFC and Focus Shift Tower
85 Camaro
1969 358ci, 97 TA interior, 91 Z28 GrdEfx and Aero Wing 255rwhp
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,454
Learned patience the hard way
|
|
Learned patience the hard way
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,454 |
Yes, the kit will directly swap over to a 3L if you go that route if/when your current engine dies. The T-28 might be a bit undersized for the air needs of the 3L, but it will work just fine. You can eventually have it upgraded as well if you want. It sounds like you're in the market for the base ADC turbo kit with intercooler. Should be a great setup for your needs.
Rick
Owner of 00 #1611 Silver (Totalled) 98.5 T-Red SVT #6180
Buckshot77@msn.com
Misc 3L parts for sale
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
Yeah, I'd say you'd be just as happy with a built N/A 3L as you would with a 2.5 turbo on your stock motor. Reason is you know you can't crank the boost without popping something on the early model pistons and a well done 3L has far less cost and almost as much power as the low budget stock 2.5L turbo. The torque is better matched for the basic drivetrain than a turbo because any turbo duratec will probably melt the tires in 1st and 2nd if you let it.
More fun...the turbo. More reliable and maybe just as much fun... 3L and much cheaper.
3L then add a moderate nitrous kit later and you'll beat almost any 2.5L turbo.
Now nitrous is no joke, but if you want power and cost is the name of the game then it is the way to go.
It is going to run you inside of $2000 to do a nice 3L with bolt ons, dual exhaust and intake(doing it yourself). Then another $1500-$2000 should see you a nicely tuned basic nitrous setup that when on the bottle will see you to 300-350 at the wheels if you want.
Of course if you become addicted to speeding off from every stop light like I am, the turbo ends up becoming more practical later on.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 636
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
OP
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 636 |
Originally posted by warmonger:
Of course if you become addicted to speeding off from every stop light like I am, the turbo ends up becoming more practical later on.
I already am thanks to the Camaro I built. I've been getting there with the SVT, but it's not that fast as of yet.
-Mike
98 Contour SVT
Toreador Red #49 of 6535 Built on 3/25/97
WR Headers, Borla Cat-Back, Torsen T2 LSD, K&N Short Ram, S-AFC and Focus Shift Tower
85 Camaro
1969 358ci, 97 TA interior, 91 Z28 GrdEfx and Aero Wing 255rwhp
|
|
|
|
|
