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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 313
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 313 |
OK.. I have started my build up with an extra set of rear hubs I can pre-install the bushings in and powdercoat ahead of time (Thanks to Kevdogg410). Now for the question of the day - door # 1 or door #2. Looks like door # 1, but it sounds like some people are doing both in some cases. 
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 291
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 291 |
The 2 bushings are different. Easiest way is to be certain is to measure them!
The bushings which come in the ES kit are for the trailing arm - both in the arm and the knuckle.
Not really sure why everyone is so wound up about the bushings as most of the deflection in the rr suspension is caused by the crapola arms, not the bushings. The only arm which is strong is the trailing arm.
How do I know? Because I've swapped arms AND bushings long ago. I run a combination of alloy, rubber and poly bushings in all the right places.
Don't forget that the rr subframe, unlike the front, is direct mounted to the chassis w/out any rubber isolation. Take all the rubber out and you'll have incredible harshness and suspension binding. Just a plain lousy setup.
Redcoat Raceworks. Performance parts and custom fabricating for Contours, Mystiques and Cougars. Specializing in chassis and suspension parts. Custom end links, control arms, strut tower bars, engine torque braces, etc.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,141
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,141 |
99 SE V6\5spd - 156 HP\157 TQ 15.166-90.84
Totaled 02/12/06
99 SVT # 1571 - 175 HP\153 TQ 14.999-91.88
Born 3/24/99 Reborn 3/18/06
Pietenpol Racing Technologies project vehicle
90 Festiva L 5spd, Blue(not for long), 103k
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,887
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,887 |
My car wasn't harsh at all after removing half the stock crap and replacing it with poly bushings and spherical rod ends? It actually rode pretty solid and didn't feel like a hoopty cadiallac.
06 GMC Sierra 2500HD Dmax/ally
06 Pontiac G6 GT
05 CRF250R
FOR SALE 06 KX65 with riding gear $2700 obo
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,141
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,141 |
Originally posted by Bradness:
Take all the rubber out and you'll have incredible harshness and suspension binding. Just a plain lousy setup.
Respectfully disagree........from personal experience.
Mumm's cougar had 0 bushings in the suspension 
99 SE V6\5spd - 156 HP\157 TQ 15.166-90.84
Totaled 02/12/06
99 SVT # 1571 - 175 HP\153 TQ 14.999-91.88
Born 3/24/99 Reborn 3/18/06
Pietenpol Racing Technologies project vehicle
90 Festiva L 5spd, Blue(not for long), 103k
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,140
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,140 |
If you use rod-ends everywhere, there's no way you should get binding. If you use poly, with only one degree of freedom, then it could very possibly bind up. But the subframe mounting doesn't have anything to do with the binding, just the NVH.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 291
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 291 |
Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
If you use rod-ends everywhere, there's no way you should get binding.
Obviously, you don't understand how multi link suspension geometry works.
There are 3 different arms of 3 different lengths per side. Each one carves an arc when it moves through it's range of motion. As the wheel/tire assembly moves up and down and the suspension moves away from the neutral point (level), the arc causes the length in reference to the other arms to shorten/lengthen. At the extreme points of compression and/or rebound the arms are pulling against each other. The Ford suspension engineers actually used this characteristic to make the rear suspension toe in when cornering.
Rod ends simply allow a bit of angularity, typically 10-13 degrees. The do absolutely nothing for modifying suspension geometry. The only suspension design which does not have bind is a twin A arm.
You can limit suspension travel (& bind) by using really stiff springs, but the ride will be crap. Now this is unimportant if the car is for track use or your roads are billiard table smooth. But not where winter includes freeze-thaw and the roads are potholed (like here).
If you want to see a good job on the rr suspension, look at the Jag X type. Same chassis, very different rr suspension. We're stuck with what Ford has given us.
Redcoat Raceworks. Performance parts and custom fabricating for Contours, Mystiques and Cougars. Specializing in chassis and suspension parts. Custom end links, control arms, strut tower bars, engine torque braces, etc.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,140
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,140 |
Originally posted by Bradness:
You can limit suspension travel (& bind) by using really stiff springs, but the ride will be crap.
Troupslap for me. I really wasn't thinking on that one. Yes, if you rebuild the whole suspension with rod-ends, it'll bind with normal springs. But you can get a couple inches of bind-free travel from rod ends, if you have high spring rates (like mine). For a racing suspension, you'd want - well, not this design, mo matter how modified.  UP FRONT, you'll certainly want to go with a solid bushing, probably a spherical-bearing rod end, since it's a simpler design.
Could you post more details of what you have in the rear? I'm really wondering where to go after I get poly in the trailing arm. I have lots of ideas, but I don't have the time to fab and try right now.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,101
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,101 |
I'll add one thing in here since very few of my bushings are stock in the rear with the exception of the main control arms. With the trailing arm bushings you most likely shoudn't replace the knuckle bushing unless it is really toasted. A few local members have reported the back end wandering when these were replaced with the ES Bushings. I'd recommed replacing the bushing on the leading end of the trailing arm first and then going from there.
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