|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198
Hard-core CEG'er
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198 |
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Lets see if we can put this back on track...
So Tookie shouldn't have been put to death because the good that comes from his books outweighs the evil of his crimes?
(sarcasm) He was convicted of killing 4 people, surely his books had to have saved at least 5! 
I guess my sense of right and wrong is a little more defined.
I guess your sense of a good analogy is a little less developed Rusty! 
Your analogy is trying to say that the end (saving 5+ lives through his books) is justifying the means (killing 4 people). I don't think Tookie killed 4 people so that his kids books could save 5+. In other words, it's not the same thing.
Last edited by Davo; 12/13/05 10:18 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,889
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,889 |
My point is the end justifying the means. I think it's safe to say the he would never have written those books had he not found himself with all kinds of spare time in prison for murdering 4 people. Almighty seem to be saying that it's OK to break the law if the outcome serves what he perceives as the greater good. You may call this an over-simplification but what I hear Allmighty saying is that lives(speculation)were saved because we sold weapons to Iran illegally. It also could be said the Tookies books saved lives(again speculation). Illegal action leads to (depending on who you talk to) a favorable outcome. Can you see it yet?
Wrong is wrong no matter what good you think may have come out of it.
99 Contour Sport SE MTX
KKM filter, B&M shifter
No res, BAT kit
Green car silver hood (because silver is faster)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198 |
I see what you're saying, but it's wrong. The United States sold weapons in order to free hostages. Do you really think Tookie killed people in order to sell books and save lives? Tookie's means for "saving lives" was writing the books, not killing people. There was no saving of lives in the action of killing people in the same way there was selling weapons to Iran, which is why your analogy doesn't work. Trying to say they're the same thing because an illegal action was necessary to produce a positive outcome is quite stretch and even irrelevant.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,292
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,292 |
Originally posted by Davo:
I see what you're saying, but it's wrong. The United States sold weapons in order to free hostages. Do you really think Tookie killed people in order to sell books and save lives? Tookie's means for "saving lives" was writing the books, not killing people. There was no saving of lives in the action of killing people in the same way there was selling weapons to Iran, which is why your analogy doesn't work. Trying to say they're the same thing because an illegal action was necessary to produce a positive outcome is quite stretch and even irrelevant.
for once i'm gonna agree with davo on this one....
"Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but STUPID lasts forever."-Aristophanes.
--93 pgt,headers,intake,borla=14.9 1/4mile
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,889
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,889 |
Go read Allmighty's post and show me where it says this. "The United States sold weapons in order to free hostages" This may be your opinion but it's not relevant to this dicussion. My response was based on what Allmighty wrote, not on whats going on in your head.
99 Contour Sport SE MTX
KKM filter, B&M shifter
No res, BAT kit
Green car silver hood (because silver is faster)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198 |
Okay, so you were talking about the unintended consequences of Iran Contra and how they're related to the unintended consequences of Tookie's murder conviction. Makes sense now. Talk about irrelevant though... 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 864
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 864 |
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Go read Allmighty's post and show me where it says this. "The United States sold weapons in order to free hostages" This may be your opinion but it's not relevant to this dicussion. My response was based on what Allmighty wrote, not on whats going on in your head.
Uhm..., I think you need to re-read my post as well. I never said anything about Iran/Contra saving lives (nor about freeing hostages). I stated it was a wise political move to maintain stability in the Middle East, as well as to further push the Marshall plan. Iran/Contra was in no way about saving lives (c'mon we were sponsoring a war on both sides). It was about maintaining the political status quo in one global region and pushing a capitalist and democratic dogma in another.
In this case; Yes, the End justified the Means, in American eyes. I have said nothing about the End justifing the Means in respect to Tookie. For you to draw the conclusion that I am is folly. I even stated:
Quote:
Sometimes, yes. It would truly depend on the End, and availble means to that desired End.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,889
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,889 |
Originally posted by TheAlmightyMe:
c'mon we were sponsoring a war on both sides
And for this we should have given Ronnie the Nobel PEACE Prize?
Well at least that deal worked out well for us and didn't blowup in our face. 
99 Contour Sport SE MTX
KKM filter, B&M shifter
No res, BAT kit
Green car silver hood (because silver is faster)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 733
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 733 |
His writing kid's books gives no clemency for his actions. He has created one of the bitterest rivalries in LA. Believe me, I know (since I went to Westchester High, a predominantly black school). We CONSTANTLY had fights over "territory" and all that shiznit.
I'm not all for the death penalty itself, but, he had to pay for his actions. Simple as that.
Is my car for sale? PM me if you're in South FL.
Originally posted by XKontour98:
Haha that's awesome! Go GM!
YES, SIR!!!
General Aviation is Looking good right now...http://www.beapilot.com
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 864
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 864 |
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Originally posted by TheAlmightyMe:
c'mon we were sponsoring a war on both sides
And for this we should have given Ronnie the Nobel PEACE Prize?
Well at least that deal worked out well for us and didn't blowup in our face.
Actually; it did. It would have worked even better had certian persons kept their mouths shut. The American public should not know about certian things for their own good.
|
|
|
|
|
