|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015
Hard-core CEG'er
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015 |
Understood. I slight boring may be required then. Seeing as the block I measured out back come out to 82.35mm  I need to measure these things myself rather than go off the documentation - and another thing I just realised is that I have a 2000 SVT which has a smaller bore still.  I may need the used block I have at my disposal if I build up a 2.5L as it's a 99 and would have the larger bore to start with.
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197 |
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015 |
Originally posted by todras:
Not a problem I have a engine builder about 5 minutes from my house that will bore, hone and cone the block for $16 per hole, so $96 to do it. 
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602 |
Originally posted by warmonger:
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
I would not spend a dime building the 2.5L engine or anything with 2.5L heads. Period. (well late 2002MY the 2.5L changed)
Nobody can defend the use of a known engine failure waiting to happen much less paying to build something with it. Also trying to justify it is just plain ignorant. 'nuff said.
I Totally disagree.
Not surprising but still not defendable Tom.
I'd like to see someone try to defend choosing a known engine failing flaw (2.5L heads) over an option that does not have that flaw (3L heads). Exactly. There is no possible excuse you could dream up that would cover it. Period.
I don't care to hear anything relating to power production or I had my hybrid XX miles and it's still luckily running. It's still a ticking time bomb running the POS non-draining head design. You can not deny that fact and that's the entire point.
I had my 2.5L for 34k miles before it shelled due to the fatal head flaw. That was 34k miles of Russian roulette I was lucky enough to win. There was no way in hell I would have even considered rebuilding that flawed design. I can't fathom why others still do personally. There is no logic to it considering the known facts and a viable alternative that is even predominantly cheaper to build instead. 
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 431
CEG\'er
|
|
OP
CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 431 |
wow interesting this comes up now after everyone bought pistons from bore size. Honing from my understanding or I was told will increase the bore size at least .0001 which starts to get bigger than the clearance needed. I went back to my builder and remeasured the block the block was over by one thousand. If I had my pistons I would remeasure the pistons to check for there dimensions but Rick has them now.
I keeop rememebering seeing the ring gap on the top of the piston when I dissasembled them I have a bad feeling that you should not be able to see the rings at all since 5 thousands is real minute. Once I get them back I will recheck them.
Diamond said it was tuning and oil problems. I was wondering if I my water injection was maybe making my cylinder washed out.
So hence I will be boring a 3 liter now just 20 over
99 SVT #198 blk/blue
Spec 3/quaife/stage 2 shafts
T3/T4 fully built 3.0
ported heads
water injec./intercooled
13.2 @ 107 mph
clifford alarm and turbo timer
koni struts H&R springs
intercooler for sale
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
Originally posted by Buckshot77:
Hmmm, where to start. I think you guys are completely missing the picture by not having built any of the forged internal motors.
I'm probably the one most influencing Burrita to do a bored out engine and no, I'm not the one building his motor, just an advisor. Here is the thinking as simple as I can make it:
1) 3L blocks often have multiple grades of piston sizes within 1 block. You cannot order forged pistons to multiple diamters to the .0001" in the same batch.
2) Forged piston manufacturers know the material they're manufacturing, have tolerances to .0001" and recommend bore tolerances based on their knowledge of the expansion rate of materials. Don't make the mistake you know more about using the manufacturers product than they do.
3) His current bore is trashed after looking at the condition of his pistons (I have them in hand). He must buy new pistons and if he wants to keep from having to buy a new block, he can just increase the bore size on his current block to the next level which I recommend in .010" increments. If he's currently at .020" overbore, then go to a .030" overbore piston and have the bore matched to it.
4) As far as stock internals go, he's all ready got forged parts, why does he want to go back to stock? Even if he wanted to go with stock pistons his only option is the OEM aftermarket type and depending on the weight, may still cause him to rebalance his assembly.
5) For balancing, the only way he should not have to rebalance the assembly is if the new parts are lighter than the last set or within a few grams of the old ones. If they are significantly heavier, than he must rebalance the crank as well.
Hopefully this clears things up.
Rick
Well, I've put forged pistons in before but hone and selection was done by someone else. I'm guessing you didn't do your own hone and sizing either right?
You points are good and as I stated, I'm not saying NOT to hone if necessary. What is important is the type of hone match the type of ring used. THe bore clearance needs to match the operating temperature and the type of alloy used in the pistons. Just honing and slapping them in is not really any better than snatching aftermarkets pistons of any type and going at it.
Fugg it, he's got about the same amount of money to go for most of his options. I can't imagine he'd want to make more work on top of what he already has to go through. Who's gonna prep the 3L on top of all this honing and forged internals anyway?
My point is his cost estimates for the 3L are lower than they really will be.
Whatever. I felt IMHO that the 2.5L swap with the forged pistons and his old rods is the way to go. If you guys can see any way that the other swaps are actually simpler or cheaper (in reality now) then go for it.
I have no benefit in it. I'm done, that's my $3 in advice.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 431
CEG\'er
|
|
OP
CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 431 |
Since Stazi pistons are the for the 2000 bore then the block could be easily hone out to the size. So yes I would have bought the setup from him. But since I sold my PNP heads I figured that I could go 3 liter for the same price because the money I received for my heads basically bought me a 2002 escape motor with 56k miles on it for 550.00 shipped in perfect shape.
And after seeing what you guys are getting out of the 3 liter with just minute boost levels> I rather invest my money in the 3 liter platform. And who know the 3 liter will get better as they offer more for the 3 liters now.
So Now I will be posting in the liter section because I made my mind up. thanks guys I will let this post rest I will post further questions in the 3 liter section.
99 SVT #198 blk/blue
Spec 3/quaife/stage 2 shafts
T3/T4 fully built 3.0
ported heads
water injec./intercooled
13.2 @ 107 mph
clifford alarm and turbo timer
koni struts H&R springs
intercooler for sale
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
Originally posted by BurritaSVT:
Since Stazi pistons are the for the 2000 bore then the block could be easily hone out to the size. So yes I would have bought the setup from him. But since I sold my PNP heads I figured that I could go 3 liter for the same price because the money I received for my heads basically bought me a 2002 escape motor with 56k miles on it for 550.00 shipped in perfect shape.
And after seeing what you guys are getting out of the 3 liter with just minute boost levels> I rather invest my money in the 3 liter platform. And who know the 3 liter will get better as they offer more for the 3 liters now.
So Now I will be posting in the liter section because I made my mind up. thanks guys I will let this post rest I will post further questions in the 3 liter section.
Oh, I see. You were calculating selling your heads into the deal? I didn't know you sold them already. Well, I stand corrected, a 3L would be very much a viable option if you aren't tied to your old heads.
As far as 3L boost, yeah  . I probably have had as much power potential on my stock pistons and moderate boost as you've had full blown forged.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015 |
My pistons are for the older SVT bores not the 2000 And so I am unsure whether the 2000 block could be bored out to the required 3.2447 bore _ may need to bore out a regular 2.5L bore  Or someone else can offer to buy these pistins from me
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 431
CEG\'er
|
|
OP
CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 431 |
You know I am worried my record will be beat so i must keep up with all your hp gains  If I can get those heads off of Jesse for hardly since I doubt if I he will sell now because of the oiling issue deliema. So the less expensive he sells them the more I can spend on oil problem. Worst comes to worst I will use my oval ports if the his one of kind heads are to much to wrk with. I am having my intercooler built now to replace my outdated one. My next problem will be later on is my T3?T4 will be too small........ 
99 SVT #198 blk/blue
Spec 3/quaife/stage 2 shafts
T3/T4 fully built 3.0
ported heads
water injec./intercooled
13.2 @ 107 mph
clifford alarm and turbo timer
koni struts H&R springs
intercooler for sale
|
|
|
|
|
