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Originally posted by Zoom Zoom Diva:
I am not insisting that Ford do anything but hold their ground on principles they have chosen to make a part of the company. These principles have stood (and stood out) as a part of the employment, benefits, and marketing, recently earning a 100% rating from the Equal Rights Campaign.
So is Ford anti-gay now? I've yet to hear anything that convinces me that Ford is anti-gay. They made a strict business decision, and a smart business decision at that. What would make it a dumb business decision is if gays now boycotted Ford, but I'm guessing most of them could give a [censored] and a half about being marketed to by Ford, so I don't really see that happening any time soon.
Originally posted by Zoom Zoom Diva:
FWIW, I do not consider a group representing the second leading concentration of wealth in the United States, and as much as 10% of the population "tiny".
I'm interested to see by what measure you consider them the second leading concentration of wealth.
Originally posted by Zoom Zoom Diva:
I have an issue with Ford for caving in to these terroristic threats. I have no problem with the views of the AFA. They can believe that homosexuality is sinful and wrong all they want. The views don't make them terrorists. The actions of requiring others to act according to those beliefs under threat of boycott does.
But if Ford had the balls to stand up to the principles you claim they have, it would render AFA impotent. Again, the problem is Ford, not AFA.
Are you calling AFA a bunch of terrorists because of this action they've taken? If so, I'd be quite disappointed, as I don't see how boycotting for the removal of some advertisements can be considered terrorism. If you and your community really are harmed by this, then I suggest you re-evaluate your thoughts and ideas in hopes that a more rational reaction can be made.
Originally posted by Zoom Zoom Diva:
I would have no issue if Ford advertised on Pat Robertson, as much as he represents the American Taliban movement in this country. I do have an issue when they won't allow the same courtesy to me.
Do you consider being marketed to a courtest?
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Originally posted by Zoom Zoom Diva:
It was not a strictly business decision. The campaign seems to have generated enough direct profit to continue for an extended period of time up to the point of the threat. Ford has also made statements for a long time about their principled stand for gays and lesbians, but scurry away from it as soon as a few Christian extremists say peep.
The change is directly related to the threat, not due to the lack of success of the campaign.
I would like links to the ford anti-gay words from ford.
I would also like links showing a direct relation.
I would also like links showing that it wasn't a buisness move.
Once you provide all those links, providing they are all real and not just a blog saying it, I will take your side. 
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Ford responded the way they did due to the threat of a boycott by a group of religo-Nazis, not due to any relevant business issues at hand.
Read the article again.
I'm about "boycotted" and "activist grouped" to death as well, but Ford caving into special interests to avoid clashing with another set of special interests is a bit daft in my mind.
They should have KNOWN they were making a social statement the moment they made this decision. The appropriate thing to say is to tell both sides that Ford markets to all demographics in a manner and fashion that is both prudent and appropriate for the audience it targets and in no way, shape or form makes any political commentary on religious, sexual or sensitive social issues in it's advertising. Period.
But, instead of doing the right thing, Ford chose to do the easy thing and piss on a sexual minority to coddle the knee-jerk activist reflex that a group of reactionary Jesus-Freaks had to act upon.
Please, one person here tell me what damage to the religious fabric of the US that Ford is doing when it shows two women or two men tastefully posing with a car in a gay, lesbian or bisexual periodical? If these morons think for one minute that a young teenager is going to be "scarred" or "seduced" into the homosexual "lifestyle" due to such an advertising spread, I've got an unpacked parachute I'd love to loan them on their next skydiving trip...
These folks run out of violent games in the hands of young children to shout about? Has alcoholism and drug abuse dropped to such levels to justify this? Too few crack-houses in existance today? Have divorce rates taken a serious dive? Have all the porn sites and magazines been cleared out of convienence stores and out of cyberspace? Poverty and hunger been whipped yet?
There are about 34,923,212 other things that SHOULD be concentrated upon over this and the fact that some can't see this is telling of the shape that organized religion is in today.
Christianity does a LOT of good in the world, but there are those that certainly spoil it's aura and those that choose to spend more time condemning, boycotting and stirring up trouble where little to none existed are entirely missing the point of what a slew of little red words in the New Testament asked of it's followers...
JaTo
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Missouri City, TX
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I am not saying Ford is anti-gay. However, this decision does reflect a significant step back from their previous pro-gay position. JaTo's response reflects a far smarter and more businesslike decision than the one Ford made. His whole post fits my position on this issue. Why is it OK, or a smart business decision for the AFA to threaten a boycott? Concentration of wealth is measured by average net worth. Gay men tend to earn more than the national average, and are far less likely to have children to hamper the building of wealth. If the AFA didn't try to force their beliefs on others by threatening Ford, there would have been no decision to stand or cave. I also do have an issue with Ford for not replying as JaTo already posted. But if Ford had the balls to stand up to the principles you claim they have, it would render AFA impotent. Again, the problem is Ford, not AFA. I consider it economic terrorism when a group threatens to blow up your income statement if you don't do what they want. They did the same thing to Toyota for advertising on Nip/Tuck. Originally posted by Davo:
Do you consider being marketed to a courtest?
I meant the courtesy to allow a company to also market in media outlets I don't like or agree with. However, advertising to me is sort of a courtesy. While it may tell me about the new Chinese restaurant or furniture store, it really doesn't influence what I want to buy. I decide what I want and then try to find it (unfortunately, sometimes with the issue of it not existing).
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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Originally posted by Zoom Zoom Diva:
Why is it OK, or a smart business decision for the AFA to threaten a boycott?
I meant it's a smart business decision (numbers-wise) for Ford to pull the advertising.
Originally posted by Zoom Zoom Diva:
I consider it economic terrorism when a group threatens to blow up your income statement if you don't do what they want. They did the same thing to Toyota for advertising on Nip/Tuck.
There is nothing illegal (or wrong, for that matter) with one group using its power to try to control the evironment in which it lives. Afterall, to what lengths does the gay community go to get society to accept their lifestyle? I don't see anyone complaining about the gay community's insitence that everyone accept their lifestyle. Someone with a different perspective may see that as being the same thing you think AFA/Christian Taliban are doing.
Don't get me wrong, I think the AFA's threat to boycott is quite ludicrous. Like JaTo suggested, is there nothing else to be worried about? It's quite likely they have more problems with the people in their own church than they think they have with others. When people bring out the 'evil Christians' torches is when a different perspective is needed.
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Originally posted by Zoom Zoom Diva:
Why is it OK, or a smart business decision for the AFA to threaten a boycott?
Why is it ok for the ACLU, Rainbow Coalition, PETA, and all the other leftist organizations to do the same?
Ryan
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I agree that it is not illegal, and that AFA has every right in a free society to threaten a boycott. I am also exercising a right to have and express my opinion of them as a result of that action.
I have issues with many gay activist groups as well. People can believe whatever they want of homosexuals and the various related topic. I frankly don't care. I am not asking anybody to accept homosexuality, just to accept they have no right to force me to live according to their beliefs.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Originally posted by Zoom Zoom Diva:
Why is it OK, or a smart business decision for the AFA to threaten a boycott?
Why is it ok for the ACLU, Rainbow Coalition, PETA, and all the other leftist organizations to do the same?
Never said it was.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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The Ford marketing campaign to the geys is pure genius!
Generated a lot of buzz.
Black 1998.5
3L Oval Port
Full HMS Transmission
Lots of other stuff
Ressurected 06/14/06
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Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Why is it ok for the ACLU, Rainbow Coalition, PETA, and all the other leftist organizations to do the same?
It's no different in my mind, but I would hope that organizations that claim to represent "Christian" principles and ideology hold themselves to a MUCH higer standard than the one that some of the bottom-feeders you mentioned do.
JaTo
e-Tough Guy
Missouri City, TX
99 Contour SVT
#143/2760
00 Corvette Coupe
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