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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198 |
Originally posted by svt4stv:
john kerry lost so everyone who is not a Republican is an idiot?? that doesnt help much to your credibility Davo. sometimes you sound intelligent and sometimes you sound like youre still in high school. 
I don't think you detected my sarcasm. No, not everyone that didn't vote for GWB is an idiot. My point is that it doesn't make much sense for people to call GWB an idiot when he has been elected president twice. Most of the time, those calling him the dumbest human ever are those whom he beat in 2000 and 2004. So voting for Bush's opponent doesn't make you an idiot by default, but what makes you an idiot is claiming Bush is such a big idiot.
Originally posted by svt4stv:
GB won because he was THE Republican candidate. it also doesnt hurt that his father was a former president, a respected one at that. he was practically a shoe-in. the Dems didnt exactly have the best candidate themselves. Clinton probably could have beat him though. wonder why he didnt run back then..  was he still in college?
A shoo-in?? Are you kidding? Bush won during the Democratic 'glory years'. The economy was doing well (it had started going downwards, but they waited until Bush was in office to disclose that) and we were in times of peace. The fact that the incumbent party didn't win still amazes me to this day (well, until I think of Algore).
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,506
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,506 |
"There you go again." You should know that line from the 1980 presidential debates. My post refered to voters who regret their votes later. I made NO attempt to equate voting practices with approval ratings. Yet that's what you tried to turn my post into. (Nice swing there guy, but shorten your stride and try a two ounce lighter bat.)
There's a MAJOR difference between A) saying Pres. X did this right but that wrong so a broad population temporarily does not approve of the job he's doing by a 49-51 or 40-60 or 35-65 proportion; and B) saying two to ten years later a full quarter of HIS voting block disgustedly asks itself "HOW could we have been SOOO naive?" Bunches of Nixon's own voters were vehemently repulsed by what he did to their party and to their country fairly soon after he won his second presidential election, and bunches of his voters had actual REGRET over having voted for him. Yes, he still has a ways to go, but Bush is diligently working on matching that. And just as Carter owed his election to Nixon, if Hillary wins in 2008, you will have to thank Bush.
Talk about NOT seeing the pitch when you swing... You'd better head for that pitching machine/batting cage with the 40 mph softballs before you join a co-ed softball league.
MSDS, SHO-shop Y, custom 2.5" catback; xcal2; 63mm TB, K&N 3530; Koni struts, Aussie bar; THaines forks, Quaife, SpecII, UR fly; DMD; Nima UD pullies; Stazi brakes; f&r Pole120 mounts. Just a daily commuter car. Silver '98 SVT E0 #3159
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,117
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,117 |
Originally posted by svt4stv:
i think he opened up a nice big fat can of worms and its still going to be a big mess well after he's gone.
I gathered from his SoTU address that we were in for a long fight. Seems to be true thus far, and yes, I expect it to continue for another 10 years. Maybe not in Iraq, but the fight will continue until there is no haven or recruiting ground for terrorists.
Furthermore, remember WTC 1993? How 'bout the USS Cole? How about the embassy attacks? My thinking is that somebody else opened the can, & GW is the one president who had the balz to pick it up to throw it in the garbage. He's doing the heavy lifting for all the others that left the dirty little secret under the rug.
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,889
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,889 |
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by svt4stv:
i think he opened up a nice big fat can of worms and its still going to be a big mess well after he's gone.
I gathered from his SoTU address that we were in for a long fight. Seems to be true thus far, and yes, I expect it to continue for another 10 years. Maybe not in Iraq, but the fight will continue until there is no haven or recruiting ground for terrorists.
Furthermore, remember WTC 1993? How 'bout the USS Cole? How about the embassy attacks? My thinking is that somebody else opened the can, & GW is the one president who had the balz to pick it up to throw it in the garbage. He's doing the heavy lifting for all the others that left the dirty little secret under the rug.
Yep, he's some kinda man. 
Maybe all those non-heavy lifters(including George Sr.) knew that taming the Middle East is like trying to rope an elephant with dental floss. Sr's war was a different situation. The hard targets were known and clearly visible(for the most part applies to all of these),the bad guys wore uniforms so we knew who to shoot at and we didn't have to stay(mistake). We got to watch bombs fly in thru windows and it was all very high tech. It was neat, clean, fast and that's the way Americans like it. I'm not arguing right or wrong here I'm just saying. Now we have a guerrilla war on our hands, something that they are better at then we are. What do I base this on? The fact that they know who we are and we don't know who they are. Our soldiers are easily identifiable which makes them a target every minute of every day. Our technology can't help us differentiate between the good guys and the bad because they all look just like the people we're there to liberate. While we're trying to figure out who we're fighting soldiers are wounded and dying everyday. The American public(Rep or Dem) won't stand for years of prolonged bloodshed.
Unless all of the governments of the Middle East come together to fight this problem it will never end. We can't win this kind of war...we can only hope to hand it off and make it someone else's problem.
The money would have been better spent securing things here at home.
My personal experience is that thinking with your balls rather than your brain more often than not just leads to trouble! 
99 Contour Sport SE MTX
KKM filter, B&M shifter
No res, BAT kit
Green car silver hood (because silver is faster)
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,290
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,290 |
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Now we have a guerrilla war on our hands, something that they are better at then we are. What do I base this on? The fact that they know who we are and we don't know who they are. Our soldiers are easily identifiable which makes them a target every minute of every day. Our technology can't help us differentiate between the good guys and the bad because they all look just like the people we're there to liberate. While we're trying to figure out who we're fighting soldiers are wounded and dying everyday. The American public(Rep or Dem) won't stand for years of prolonged bloodshed.
Unless all of the governments of the Middle East come together to fight this problem it will never end. We can't win this kind of war...we can only hope to hand it off and make it someone else's problem.
I'm gonna have to agree with this. If by some miracle Iraq becomes able to self-police, what's our next project? We've learned that sovreign nations don't necessarily take kindly to militaristic "acts of kindness," no matter how beneficial the envisioned result might be. So if throwing troops at a problem isn't the answer, what is? Taking the "kill terrorists when they expose themselves" reactionary role will not fix the underlying problems or mitigate American losses. This is why I've always thought the term "war on terror" was overly-simplistic.
E0 #36
'95 Ranger
'82 Honda CX500
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,155
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,155 |
Originally posted by Viss1:
This is why I've always thought the term "war on terror" was overly-simplistic.
And technicly inacurrate if you think about it.
Or will future wars fail to be declared by Congress? Granted, Congress believed all the intel we had against Iraq, and motivated the Pres to begin a conflict; but they never Declared War. Was it to prevent native Iraqi's from thinking that we would have an imperialistic approach? Or to keep the skeptical International community from blasting our choice of declaring a full out war on Iraq.
Just questions I pose. I wonder how the American public would react differently if Congress declared a state of war. I feel people would carry more of a sense of responisbility for their government's actions.
I really can't speak for our resident veterans, but so far every veteran I've talked to has repeatedly stated the conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan are CAMPAIGNS that were never declared war. I despise reading "War in Iraq" just because CNN says that's what it is. (This is not a personal attack at you, Viss!  )
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