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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
Originally posted by Stazi:
I don't think there are ANY Taurus engine will C.O.P. Please show me otherwise if I am mistaken - which takes me to my next question.
Can C.O.P. be used on the Contour? Is the connection, or the very least - the wiring the same as the coilpack setup? If so this would be awesome as we could use the Escape or ST220 UIM on the 3L oval poirt conversions - nice for boosted cars.
This all depends on whether the wiring is the same, the ECU output/programming is the same, AND the Escape uses the same "wasted spark" ignition setup.
No, I didn't know what the new Tauri motors used for ignition systems. I assumed that with all the other duratec 3.0s using coil on plug that by 2002 they would all have used it since is superior. Should have known. 
The coil on plug uses a separate coil driver for each coil. The gets rid of the wastespark methods rpm limitations. Remember that the time to fire the plug and resaturate the coil is based solely on rpm. At high rpm the wastespark method is not capable of firing once per revolution and still allow the proper amount of coil saturation; and therefore spark is degraded. The coil on plug method fires much like the multiport fuel injector and only has to fire once per two revolutions, effectively almost doubling the usable rpm range for that type of ignition system.
The rpm range of the wastespark is still above the normal duratec range however so this is only of secondary concern. The improvements in spark quality and the elimination of having problems in one cylinder affect the performance of another cylinder are nice bonuses though.
I tried to play around with a conversion option but it won't work the same way. You can adapt the pcm to drive pairs of plug coils so that it would be operated the same way as a waste spark method however it would solve the problem of direction of current flow that eats up the electrodes on one bank of plugs on our cars and would make the spark going to each cylinder more uniform. If you swap out the coil drivers in the pcm with ones that can handle running two coils at once in parallel then you can use them.
You can use an intermediate module to use the individual coils and not affect the pcm at all. This is how I was able to use the eManage to control spark on the duratec.
In the end the external module is cost prohibitive and it is just as easy to take the escape pcm with the engine harness and wire it in and then tune it with an SCT flasher. This gives all the modern benefits for ignition control too.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
Originally posted by todras:
C.O.P. Taurus.  I'd like to see some pics of that. And no I don't want to see pics of a 3rd gen SHO Yamaha 3.4 which did use it. Tom gets another.
What?? Me for that.... 
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 51
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 51 |
Originally posted by Stazi:
I don't think there are ANY Taurus engine will C.O.P. Please show me otherwise if I am mistaken - which takes me to my next question.
Can C.O.P. be used on the Contour? Is the connection, or the very least - the wiring the same as the coilpack setup? If so this would be awesome as we could use the Escape or ST220 UIM on the 3L oval poirt conversions - nice for boosted cars.
This all depends on whether the wiring is the same, the ECU output/programming is the same, AND the Escape uses the same "wasted spark" ignition setup.
they do make cop taurus, i will try my best to get a pic ive seen some 00 with it and some with out it it might be a pcm calibration thing but i have seen them im not crazy im bringing my digi cam to work and ill get to the bottom
2003 Cobra - not stock... 496/525 rwhp/rwtq
Kenne Bell here and waiting to go on...
2000 SVT Contour - Very stock...not for long
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,065
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,065 |
Originally posted by ugotbit:
Originally posted by Stazi:
I don't think there are ANY Taurus engine will C.O.P. Please show me otherwise if I am mistaken - which takes me to my next question.
Can C.O.P. be used on the Contour? Is the connection, or the very least - the wiring the same as the coilpack setup? If so this would be awesome as we could use the Escape or ST220 UIM on the 3L oval poirt conversions - nice for boosted cars.
This all depends on whether the wiring is the same, the ECU output/programming is the same, AND the Escape uses the same "wasted spark" ignition setup.
they do make cop taurus, i will try my best to get a pic ive seen some 00 with it and some with out it it might be a pcm calibration thing but i have seen them im not crazy im bringing my digi cam to work and ill get to the bottom
00 duratec taurus' were I think still split port...no way they had COP.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 51
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 51 |
i might be off on the year but dont worry ill try to remember to get a pic of one at work... not up to me up to the cust. that bring there cars in
2003 Cobra - not stock... 496/525 rwhp/rwtq
Kenne Bell here and waiting to go on...
2000 SVT Contour - Very stock...not for long
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 51
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 51 |
saw a 2000 dohc sable today at work with coil on plug but figures i forgot my camera... i will get a pic for you non believers
2003 Cobra - not stock... 496/525 rwhp/rwtq
Kenne Bell here and waiting to go on...
2000 SVT Contour - Very stock...not for long
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
Originally posted by ugotbit:
saw a 2000 dohc sable today at work with coil on plug but figures i forgot my camera... i will get a pic for you non believers
Ohhh Really??? I'd like to see that 
Then I can pass out a trouslap of my own....
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693 |
Originally posted by ugotbit:
saw a 2000 dohc sable today at work with coil on plug but figures i forgot my camera... i will get a pic for you non believers
I also relmember that Taurus went to COP for a year (or most of it) and them came back to Waste Fire. That seems like a step backward.
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 51
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CEG\'er
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 51 |
yes sombody believes me!!!, but the ford single coils are crap and go bad commonly, the coil packs were all and all mostly solid.
2003 Cobra - not stock... 496/525 rwhp/rwtq
Kenne Bell here and waiting to go on...
2000 SVT Contour - Very stock...not for long
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602 |
I can gaurentee that during the 2000 MY and perhaps even a bit into 2001 that some 3L Duratecs in the Taurus and (mainly) Sable came with C.O.P. ignition. I've seen more then one example personally.
For reference - The coil rolloff limit of the factory ignition coil pack is north of 10000 rpm. Let me know if anyone is spinning higher then that. 
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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