Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Transaxle Rebuilding CD4E

Hi, I'm new to the list. I wish I had found you a while back. I've already learned more from you guys in a few minutes than in searching several other forums for a few days.

I'm attempting a rebuild of a CD4E. The one in my Contour is dead, so I picked up a used one, and figured I'd "freshen it up" and then drop it in. One problem I have is that I don't know the condition of the tranny. I know, it may have been counter productive to buy something I had no knowledge of, rather than just fix the one I had, but that's what I did. This trans supposedly has 97k miles on it (one reason I went this route was that mine's got 140k on it, and I thought I should start with something not quite as worn out). I've got it almost completely disassembled. I noticed that the friction surfaces appear to be in very good condition (I'm not a trans tech, so this is just an uninformed opinion). You can still see the ID numbers stamped on the clutches and the band (on the actual friction surface). Is that normal for a tranny with nearly a hundred k-miles? I'm wondering if maybe the thing had been recently rebuilt. It has a 2.047" band, and I read somewhere that OEM was 1.65".

If everything else is nominally okay in this thing, is it really necessary to replace all the clutches and plates?

Not knowing the history or actual condition of the trans makes me a little concerned that I ought to cover the "cheap insurance" items. Are the solonoids a must-change item? (this is a '98 model) What about the pump?

Things that troubled me upon disassembly:
1. Found what looks like a piece of a bushing in the pan. It's a small, thin shaving. Thing is,I can't find any damaged bushings (so far). Maybe something left over from manufacturing? I know bushings are reamed and cut when installed. Is it commont to find something like that?
2. A plunger in the VB looks like it was the victim of overpressure. I don't know which valve it is by name (have yet to receive my tech manual), but it is one of the shift valves in the intermediate plate. The spring clip holding the spoolpiece was broken, it looks like the valve was forced one direction and caused the clip to imbed into the aluminum itself. It was pretty much jammed. The valve itself looks okay. But the spool piece was galled, and I made it worse trying to get it out. So I gave up and found another valve body cheap (a used piece). I've heard about pressure problems with these tranz. Is the VB kit from TransGo the way to fix this?

I'd appreciate any words of wisdom on rebuilding this unit, or if there are any links where I can find good pictorial instructions or guides that would also be a plus.

Thanks.

The person that probably can most help you is unisys12. You might try giving him a PM.

One of the trans techs I worked with years ago almost never replaced the clutches during a trans overhaul. He ocassionally didn't find a need to replace the band as well. If he found them in the condition you have found them, he would reuse them. He was an excellent and seldom had come backs.

If you have not so already, you should read through the FAQ for this trans.

http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tranny&Number=655008&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1

Thanks Jim,

I checked out the FAQ and a lot of the references, found a great pictorial rebuild. Really good info here.

I'll probably be bugging you guys more in the near future as I get into this thing and start screwing things up. Looks like the biggest thing is not to get in too big a hurry, and TEST everything that can be tested before buttoning it back up.

If your this far into the tranny, I would rebuild it.


www.bulkpart.com
http://www.transtarindustries.com

From bulkpart you can purchase a master rebuild kit. I'd also install the Transgo shift kit. Replace both clutches and steels. Check your forward/reverse drum clutch housing for cracks, etc. They have a tendency to crack. Do not purchase a replacement from Ford. You can get them from atx wholesale parts houses

I'd also replace the torque converter and replace all bearings. You can puchase a bearing replacement pack that is not that expensive from trans star above.

I carefully check on where the bushing remains have come from. Fluid flow in this trans is based on tight clearances...

I'd replace the differential plastic ring gear for VSS. This is not expensive and tends to become brittle and fall apart over time.

I don't know how you plan on measuring final end clearance in trans. If your clearances are too wide, you will lose pressure and fluid flow and burn up the atx.

You will also need a clutch seal installer remover to properly replace the piston seals...about 120 dollars for the toolset.

Also when reasembling, perform pressure checks if you can to determine if piston seals are installed correctly, instead of putting it back in the car and then determining that the atx has a problem.

Regards,
Bob

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the info. As promised, I've got some questions.

Regarding torque converters. I can get a rebuilt one pretty reasonable, but I've always been leery of rebuilt TC's. Anybody have good advice on the general reliability and quality of rebuilds? I was also told that a tranny shop can power flush my converter. I don't think my converter has any problems. This trans wasn't burnt up or failing, as far as I know. The friction surfaces in the tranny itself are all in good shape. Anybody familiar with powerflushing converters?

Questions about end play. And first a comment: I'm not at all impressed with the quality of the ATSG manual I got for this thing. It seems like major steps of the reassembly are left out. Anybody else find these things kind of low-end? I guess it's better than nothing, but I'm just wondering if the actual Ford version - assuming I could even buy one - would be a lot better (but probably ten times as expensive). Are manuals available from Ford on these things? Anyway, you mentioned the end play measurement. How did you do it? Did you buy the guage bar and spacer tool? It looks to me like this could be emulated with similar parts, if you have access to bar stock and straight edges and the like. I might be able to jerry rig something. But here's the bigger question - how important is it really to do the end play checks? Are the tollerances that critical such that if you put the shims back in that came out, you would be really messing up? Also, one of the things you supposedly have to do to get the clearance right is choose the right thickness drive sprocket thrust washer (the plastic thrust washer between the chain sprocket and the converter housing). Do the overhaul kits come with various thickness replacement washers? Or do you order a collection of them separately, or just wait until final assembly to buy the shims you need, or what?

Oh, one more question. I noticed the oil pump drive shaft has some wear on it on the pump end. Nothing terrible, but it seems to be a real sloppy fit. It also seems to be a pretty weak part, subject to lots of twisting. Are there heavier duty ones available? I think the little insert that goes into the drive gear is also part of the problem. I noticed even before I pulled the trans apart,that when you turned the drive shaft, it had a fairly substantial engagement slop. Then if you turned it the other way, same thing - the shaft would go about 1/16 of a turn and then engage. I think between the shaft and the insert I have way too much slop here. Any thoughts?

thanks

On my rebuild I purchased a rebuilt Danco. No problems at all. I would strongly advise to purchase replacement...don't go with the existing unit. www.bulkpart.com and trans star sell rebuilt units. I was able to purchase my rebuilt from a wholesale atx parts house for 99 dollars. In person they wanted 199.00. But when I called on the phone and talked the talked, they then told me 99. Got there name and showed up an hour later and it was the same guy that quoted me a week before for 199.00

Check back side of torque converter, you should have a letter stamped A or B if I recall correctly. Make sure you get the same on the replacement.

The ATSG is about as good as it gets. Just take your time....

When I rebuilt my atx, Fastcougar lent me a cd4e toolkit that had the special tools needed for most needs. I still had to purchase the seal installers, etc. The kit includes a special piece that when bolted down, compresses the clutch packs, etc. for proper measurment.

Without this tool, you probably can still rebuild fine but have to be careful.

The drive sprocket thrust plastic washers come in different colors. You can purchase the complete pack from Trans Star. Not that expensive. You just pick the one you need. Final Endplay is important. With proper endplay, the oil is forced through the planitary housing, etc. If the endplay is too loose, the oil pressure is lost and the you lose lubrication and eventual failure. Just be careful.

Check all endplay clearances as stated in ATSG manual. The metal shims up by thrust sprocket are sized specifically for atx. Number should be stamped on them. If you have severe wear, I purchase same size replacement from FORD...they have em if you get ahold of someone that knows what they are doing.

Check the bushings in your forward clutch pack drum. Mic it. If it is worn, replace the drum. You will burn up the clutch pack if you try to reuse it and it is out of spec. Drum can be had from ATX wholesale shop or Trans Star.

The oil pump on these units have gone through a number of revisions. There is a new modified pump plate and gasket you have to purchase to rebuild. Also need to check pump gears and replace if out of spec. I just purchased a new oil pump from Bill Jenkins which gives 20 to 25% discount to Contour.org members. Check FAQ for current info on him, I believe. Wait a minute......his email address is bjenkins@teamfordlv.com

Bob
P.S. If I recall correctly I think Sonnax sells a drive sprocket thrust end kit that you can use if you don't have the bar, etc. to measure final endplay. I'd check their site for the shim kit.

Thanks Bob. I might contact Fastcougar and see if he'd be willing to lend or rent me his tool. I've located most of the the other tools I need (seal protectors, air test plate, etc.), and I think I'm going to buy them (got a pretty good deal), but I haven't found the end play preload tool. I can imagine list price on it is pretty high. If I knew how much pressure was involved, I'd be willing to rig something up myself on that one.

And speaking of knowing specs, I'm trying to find out how to heed your advice about the wear on the bushings. I can mic this stuff till the cows come home, but I don't know what the clearances are supposed to be. Where can I go for specs? The manual has none (one of my grumbles from before). Is there a source for this information that is available without having to pick the brain of all the local tranny techs?

Regarding that endplay thrust kit from Sonnax, thanks for the tip. I looked into it, and it looks like you'd still have to measure the endplay similarly to what the manual describes (at least for the drive sprocket side). The kit has shims for both the drive sprocket and driven sprocket (diff) side. Their instructions say to load the drive sprocket (toward the overdrive/reverse drum), which I'm assuming is to be done with the preload tool. I gues my question is this -- is the amount of preload critical? Is the preloading just done to make sure you've taken up all the slack, or are there some critical components being compressed a certain amount? If it's the first thing, I'd be comfortable coming up with my own preloading arrangement.

I am starting to learn quite a bit about this tranny, the more I look into it.

Thanks.

The preloader did not put that much pressure. It seemed to me to just to firmly seat all components.

I'll look into the specs and see what I can dig up for you.

Bob

Great, thanks a million. Don't go out of your way or anything. I feel like I already owe you more than I could repay. You don't know how much fear you (and others) have already removed from this process for me. The little tips in your rebuild story are worth their weight in gold. That alone surely has saved me from lunching this trans upon reassembly. I may still destroy it, but if I do, it'll be because I've done something really stupid, despite your excellent advice.

Anyway, don't mean to get all gushy or anything, but in case I didn't say so already, THANKS!!!!

Keith

Hey Bob (or anybody that can help),
I have a quandry. I was cleaning the parts in this trans, and noticed that there was no thrust bearing between the low sun (the input sprag assembly) and the low planet assembly. The assembly drawings I can find indicate there should be one there. And I even found it listed in a parts catalog. Apparently, I've misplaced it - though I'm not sure how, I have everything on one work table. Is there any possibility that they didn't put it in there? Could the tranny have lived without it? This is very strange.