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Originally posted by Beowulf:
Daily email? No idea what nonsense you are spouting. Do you think that we do not have the responsibility to protect minorities? Did you sleep during your history lessons about the Civil Rights Movement, Equal Oppertunity and other measures that we AS A PEOPLE have enacted to protect the rights and privileges of minorities? Or do you have SWASTIKA tattooed to your forehead? That assumption is just as valid at this point as your assumption that I am a liberal.
You said something that didn't make any sense, I called you out on it, and now I'm a Nazi? Very lame. 
I think it's the responsibility of the republic to give everyone equal human rights. If that's where you get "majority's responsibility to protect minorities", then good for you, but they're two different things. The belief that minorities need some sort of special protection is inherently racist.
Originally posted by Beowulf:
Really though, I understand your need to put a label on a person so that you can pigeonhole them. It is essential in your need to feel superior.
It is you who thinks being called a liberal is demeaning, not me.
Originally posted by Beowulf:
Originally posted by Beowulf:
THE PEOPLE respond quickly on issues of protecting children even though it is often inconvenient to THE PEOPLE as a whole.
Originally posted by Davo:
See above.
You didn't make a valid point. Make one, and I will address it.
My point is that you pulled this out of your ass and it makes no sense whatsoever. Whatever sense it makes to you in your head is probably completely irrelevant to the discussion.
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Zoom Zoom, that was awesome. Well said.
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Originally posted by Zoom Zoom Diva:
This form of moral engineering, forcing a certain morality onto everybody is detrimental to the rights and freedom of all.
By saying passing an amendment promoting heterosexual marriage is moral engineering, are you implying that homosexuality is immoral?
And just out of curiosity, do you think forcing homosexual marriages upon people who clearly do not want them is moral engineering?
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Originally posted by Davo:
By saying passing an amendment promoting heterosexual marriage is moral engineering, are you implying that homosexuality is immoral?
First, these gay marriage bans do not promote heterosexual marriage. Heterosexual marriage is equally available whether the homosexual marriage is allowed or not.
Second, it's a fact that homosexuality is immoral to many people. The moral engineering comes in when those people use government to force other people to live according to those morals.
Quote:
And just out of curiosity, do you think forcing homosexual marriages upon people who clearly do not want them is moral engineering?
Nobody is forcing homosexual marriage on anybody. I am not advocating a law that allows you to only marry somebody of the same sex. I am not advocating any law which would make it illegal to believe homosexual marriage is immoral and to live according to that belief.
I see no need or desire to change anybody's morals, or the ability to live according to those morals in any way. That is what moral engineering is: forcing people to live according to the morality of another.
A heterosexual can think, believe, and do all the same things whether homosexual marriage is legal or not.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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I am sorry, but I thought you were capable of intelligent thought. Your complete inability to comprehend simple concepts or create a logical statement makes it clear that you are not worth the time to debate.
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Originally posted by Beowulf:
I am sorry, but I thought you were capable of intelligent thought. Your complete inability to comprehend simple concepts or create a logical statement makes it clear that you are not worth the time to debate.
Devils Advocate. I am glad that davo points some things out to get people to look at more aspects of an issue. Not all of them, but some of them.
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I only wish I could have put it as simply and cleanly as you have here.
Without going into any sort of slope- remove "marriage" from the statements, and then answer this-
"Why is it wrong for a gay couple to be afforded the same right as the rest of us?"
That is my concern here. You're removing their ability- read: their right- to do the same thing that the rest of the population take for granted, state-by-state.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."
We have a right to life, hence murder is illegal. A right to liberty, hence wrongful imprisonment is illegal. A right to the pursuit of happiness. Well, in 19 states, where marriage for gay couples is happiness, their option to pursue that very thing, has been made impossible.
How is that fair TO THEM?
1998 SVT Contour Silver Frost for sale in Classifieds.
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Originally posted by Zoom Zoom Diva:
First, these gay marriage bans do not promote heterosexual marriage. Heterosexual marriage is equally available whether the homosexual marriage is allowed or not.
The amendments are written as a promotion of heterosexual marriage, not a banning of gay marriage. There is a difference between "marriage should only be between a man and a woman" and "marriage cannot be between two men or two women".
Originally posted by Zoom Zoom Diva:
Second, it's a fact that homosexuality is immoral to many people. The moral engineering comes in when those people use government to force other people to live according to those morals.
I see no need or desire to change anybody's morals, or the ability to live according to those morals in any way. That is what moral engineering is: forcing people to live according to the morality of another.
But wouldn't the people on the other side of the debate see the legalization of gay marriage as forcing immorality upon them? I don't necessarily believe that, I'm just trying to put the other side into perspective.
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Originally posted by Beowulf:
I am sorry, but I thought you were capable of intelligent thought. Your complete inability to comprehend simple concepts or create a logical statement makes it clear that you are not worth the time to debate.
Ah. All the sudden I'm 'not worth the time to debate'. People like you usually discover that when they can't respond to the points laid out in front of them. Sorry you didn't get away with that whole thing about the majority protecting the will of the minority. That was a doozy! 
Originally posted by _doug:
Devils Advocate. I am glad that davo points some things out to get people to look at more aspects of an issue. Not all of them, but some of them.
Thanks. That's all I'm trying to do. A different perspective sometimes freaks people out and/or confuses them, as has happened here.
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Originally posted by bishop375:
We have a right to life, hence murder is illegal.
Are you pro-abortion?
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