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Originally posted by Viva El Todras!:
.....
It would be interesting to get Tom's take on it since he's been on both sides in different services....
Wow, this is always a touchy subject and the sides vary greatly even among enlisted based on how they were treated by the officers.
But here goes:
Some officers just don't and never get it. They just aren't troop officers. They are better suited to staff. Good, staff weenies are important, and we ALL do at least some time on staff.
The other officers DO get it, and it really doesn't seem to matter if they were prior enlisted, or straight academy. Now if you are an officer that 'gets it' and you have the benefit of the enlisted side....well that just makes you more effective early on versus later on as the academy guys still have to learn that stuff.
That is where the perception of enlisted first makes a better officer. I've seen with my own eyes where it has made a worse, The Worst officer I have ever known. That enlisted experience can give a Weak officer the leg up he needs to make it to commissioning and maybe a little way beyond whereas he might never have made it without that training.
Many enlisted officers have seen/done everything and you can't tell 'em Nuthin! Those are the ones that given some pressure they resort back to "NCO" mode and fail to be the commissioned officer leader. Don't get me wrong, the NCO is the backbone of the services and NOTHING gets done without their help leading the junior soldiers. They know what it takes to take care of the soldier and hone them razor sharp for the mission... (excluding the turds on both sides of the fence here). But when you take up the Commissioned Officer hat then you have to do that job. Sometimes it contradicts enlisted training, sometimes it can be helped by it. Worse, the enlisted and officers that are excellent, high speed soldiers always have to accomodate the weak ones and take up that slack. You're only as strong as your weakest link.
Since we are all human that means that we never truly 'know' until we do it ourselves, even if just told about it. So you can't really understand these things fully until experienced. However, one can relate a few things to show the difference and why there will never be peace/cooperation in the way that was asked above:
-Both go into combat so that isn't the issue.
-The officer plans and leads the troops into combat. The perception is that he "sends" them into harms way. Sometimes he does. THAT is the first issue; no one likes to be told to get out on point.
-The NCO looks to his troops and to his mission; the officer looks to his mission and his troops. You can't have one without the other but in the end that slight wording change might make the more intuitive among you realize the difference.
-At the end of the day the officer is responsible for everything that went right or wrong. Behind closed doors he will hear it if ANYTHING went wrong and made his commander feel put out for any reason...even if the decorations on the company party were the wrong shade of green. The enlisted soldier will fall back on "Well that's how you told me to do it sir...you're the leader"
The officer can have no excuse (despite trying) and the commander will say "You should have figured out a way to accomplish getting the right shade of green...asked the right question...sought the right advice....mixed your own colors....found an expert....yada yada yada."
-And if it is a serious issue of life and death, you have to have the balls to stand by the decision that might get someone killed. AND you'd better be the fugging BEST at your job and made the best assessment before hand because how can you live with yourself if you sent someone in harms way and they die because you didn't do your job right or didn't know enough. It's all good being an officer in peacetime but when wartime comes around it is not so easy to find the right stuff.
There are always going to be differences between the two corps and just some of the fundamental differences are illustrated in the concepts I put in the scenarios above. That's as it should be. I see nothing coming down the pike that will change it either.
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I can remember 2 Osprey crashing out side Cherry Point NC in the last 10yrs. I grew up only 30mins from there. One landed in a friend of my Grandfathers field.  Found this and thought it was a sweet pic.
Just a Plain SE.
AKA Big Country
I maybe path914's B**** now, but wait until he needs his clutch done. We will see WHO is WHO's B**** then!
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I just got back from watching it. It completely blew my mind. I went with three girls. Two of them have little to no connection to a military life, while one of the girls and myself both have fathers that have served 20+ years in the armed forces.
They thought the movie was boring. The one girl and I thought it was spectacularly psychological. If you have a connection to the military lifestyle, it will really hit home a lot more than that of a purely civilian lifestyle.
-SAV
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So V-22 frames are making it to the field? That's cool. The last I'd heard was production started, but I didn't know how long it took to get them out. Kinda interesting that Ospreys & Raptors have come to fruition at the same time, give or take a few months.
"Think of it, if you like, as a librarian with a G-string under the tweed." Clarkson on the Mondeo.
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by SAV:
I just got back from watching it. It completely blew my mind. I went with three girls. Two of them have little to no connection to a military life, while one of the girls and myself both have fathers that have served 20+ years in the armed forces.
They thought the movie was boring. The one girl and I thought it was spectacularly psychological. If you have a connection to the military lifestyle, it will really hit home a lot more than that of a purely civilian lifestyle.
-SAV
Just got back from it as well. I "enjoyed" it, but it certainly is not the gung-ho movie that many thought (including myself) it might be. Not that I thought it was going to be some up beat warlike movie, but it really does just seem to focus solely on this one man's experience, and it wasn't a great one at that. On the other hand, I did think that it was certainly worth watching, and should be seen. But as I thought, it does appear to focus on what I assume to be the dark side of Marine enlisted life, especially with the Desert Storm scenario. But I think if you look hard enough, you'll find a relatively positive message come out of the movie in the whole and glimmer in certain scenes. All in all, I'm satisfied with it and recommend it, despite that it didn't cater to my "Go America, kick some @SS!" palet.
Warmonger, thanks for your post, very much appreciated. That was some great advice, and I'll certainly chew on it in my mind for quite some time, as I have the advice given to me by RT. Gotta have something to think about while I'm trying to get that 3 mile down to 18:00!
Last edited by PlatoSVT; 11/05/05 04:01 AM.
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Originally posted by warmonger:
You aren't/weren't the only one.
Hehehe And you would TOO be caught in it if you were still honoring your oath, if they assured you it was fixed. A true Marine will do his duty despite the fears.
Of Course You're Right Warmonger...The Military Is Filled With Nothing But Overcoming Fears. I Would Obviously Obey An Order To Board That Trap If Given, But I Would Be Sh!!ing Myself The Entire Trip!! I'll Take A Ride In The 46 Or Sea Knight Any Time In Comparison...Both Are Actually Fun Rides.
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Addicted CEG\'er
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#0009
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Me TOO! I think the osprey will be great if they ever prove its reliability but it would be a pant changing ride I think.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
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Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
I want my money back  
It's from the director of American Beauty. You didn't really expect it to be full of action and happy times did you?
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Joined: May 2005
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CEG\'er
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i really liked it i think it showed the real day to day life of what happens over there rather then your average war movie of just killing and killing. idk i liked it i guess it could go either way
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