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Originally posted by Pete D:
More streamlined supply chain - Do some research on Toyota's supply chain (they are the best example) and then GM. There is another abyss of money and resources. I should note that even among the japanese companies, toyota holds a clear advantage.
Right on man! If anyof the Big 3 took on a supply chain management system like Toyota they could greatly reduce production costs and start pulling their arses out of the hole!
Just look at Nummi in California, that is what they need to model.
Originally posted by Chickens:
Religion can't do much for ashholes (unless you are an alterboy)
98.5 Se w/SVT mods
98 E0 SVT~ sold
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You know what, look at my sig. I drive a 2005 Corolla LE built at NUMMI. That car has better fit and finsish than the Lincoln Continental my dad traded on his Mazda 3. It isn't the American worker that can't built a decent car, it is the Beancounters running GM and Ford who can't. They should just give their engineers realistic constraints and let them do what they know to be right.
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Joined: Apr 2004
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Originally posted by Stazi:
Three letters that explain why the Big 3 cars are more expensive, less equipped and why the Big 3 are hurting today
UAW 
Unless they pull their heads out of their collective asses, they will drive themselves out of jobs.
U A W = U Aint Working
'98 SVT Red/midnight blue - a few mods
E0 wheels for sale - PM me
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You guys need to get a grip on what's killing the Big 3. It's not supply chains or logisitcs, it's the fact that a major chunk of the profits made on 1 car go to pay the pensions for a handful of retirees, plus the benefits for them plus the benifits and retirement plans for the UAW workers working the line. Unskilled workers, a lot without even a GED get paid the same amount as engineers, all because the Big 3 let the UAW get out of hand 20 years ago. NO that the baby boomers are all retiring they are facing more bills than they have money to pay with. Thus sacrifices are made and quality, standard features, materials,etc. all get cut back. The only way that they can survive is to do what the Japanese did years ago. Declare every contract null and void, including UAW contracts and then say "OK so who want my business?" Then force them to bid hard on that business - this will work if they consider hiring a non-unionized work force as they will be able to negotiate wages/benefits that are more reasonable. Honestly I live in the Detroit greater metro area and see all these line workers and the lives they live. Guys that are less skilled than me are earning bucu bucks, and living the big life - it's just all pear-shaped. I'm not saying they should be forced into poverty but if when you hear about janitors earning the same if not more money,. per hour, compared ot a college graduate working for the same company, you got to think "Something is not right with this picture" 
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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Originally posted by red99sesport:
You know what, look at my sig. I drive a 2005 Corolla LE built at NUMMI. That car has better fit and finsish than the Lincoln Continental my dad traded on his Mazda 3. It isn't the American worker that can't built a decent car, it is the Beancounters running GM and Ford who can't. They should just give their engineers realistic constraints and let them do what they know to be right.
When you've got to pay more for your parts and pay more to have the thing built, yet still have to provide a car cheaper than the competition, you've got to cut costs somewhere.
Ford could sit and copy the Accord bolt for bolt, material for material, but in the end it would cost them an extra $3,000 to make that car than it does Honda purely because of the people who put it together. Built into every car made by Ford there is $1350 in healthcare costs alone; Honda only has $120 in healthcare costs to pay per vehicle.
And since most people are inherently not willing to pay as much for a Domestic as an Import, Ford not only has to struggle to produce a car for the same cost as its' competition with an extra $3000/car in overhead, it must actually produce in even cheaper than the competition. And when you've got to shave some $5000 off the cost of producing a vehicle, about 1/3 to 1/4 the cost of production, the beancounters and engineers have to get to work. If anything it says a lot that they've managed to produce vehicles even remotely comparable to the competition when they have to produce them for so much less material cost.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
Webpage
2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
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Originally posted by Stazi:
You guys need to get a grip on what's killing the Big 3. It's not supply chains or logisitcs, it's the fact that a major chunk of the profits made on 1 car go to pay the pensions for a handful of retirees, plus the benefits for them plus the benifits and retirement plans for the UAW workers working the line.
Unskilled workers, a lot without even a GED get paid the same amount as engineers, all because the Big 3 let the UAW get out of hand 20 years ago. NO that the baby boomers are all retiring they are facing more bills than they have money to pay with. Thus sacrifices are made and quality, standard features, materials,etc. all get cut back.
The only way that they can survive is to do what the Japanese did years ago. Declare every contract null and void, including UAW contracts and then say "OK so who want my business?" Then force them to bid hard on that business - this will work if they consider hiring a non-unionized work force as they will be able to negotiate wages/benefits that are more reasonable.
Honestly I live in the Detroit greater metro area and see all these line workers and the lives they live. Guys that are less skilled than me are earning bucu bucks, and living the big life - it's just all pear-shaped.
I'm not saying they should be forced into poverty but if when you hear about janitors earning the same if not more money,. per hour, compared ot a college graduate working for the same company, you got to think "Something is not right with this picture"
Amen to that, brother!
'98 SVT Red/midnight blue - a few mods
E0 wheels for sale - PM me
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Joined: Jun 2000
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Originally posted by Stazi:
You guys need to get a grip on what's killing the Big 3. It's not supply chains or logisitcs, it's the fact that a major chunk of the profits made on 1 car go to pay the pensions for a handful of retirees, plus the benefits for them plus the benifits and retirement plans for the UAW workers working the line.
Unskilled workers, a lot without even a GED get paid the same amount as engineers, all because the Big 3 let the UAW get out of hand 20 years ago. NO that the baby boomers are all retiring they are facing more bills than they have money to pay with. Thus sacrifices are made and quality, standard features, materials,etc. all get cut back.
The only way that they can survive is to do what the Japanese did years ago. Declare every contract null and void, including UAW contracts and then say "OK so who want my business?" Then force them to bid hard on that business - this will work if they consider hiring a non-unionized work force as they will be able to negotiate wages/benefits that are more reasonable.
Honestly I live in the Detroit greater metro area and see all these line workers and the lives they live. Guys that are less skilled than me are earning bucu bucks, and living the big life - it's just all pear-shaped.
I'm not saying they should be forced into poverty but if when you hear about janitors earning the same if not more money,. per hour, compared ot a college graduate working for the same company, you got to think "Something is not right with this picture"
Stazi, what you said rings very true. The company I'm contracted for (pharmaceutical industry) announced last week that we're closing our plant. I'm sure that part of this is because of the insane wages union workers are paid. Hell, the janitors here start at almost $40k/year. I barely make that in my infrastructure support role.
The union is what did this plant in, which is why product is being sent to another facility with no union contract.
-06 GTO Torrid Red/M6
-98 LS with BPU
-05 Honda Odyssey EX-L
mv .zig ..\for\great\.justice
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badoom chhhhh What did I tell you. F@($ the unions!
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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The Fusion is truly a successor to the Contour. Keep in mind the entry-mid size car has grown a great deal (as have cars of all sizes) in the past decade since the Contour debuted.
That said, the problem is the mindset. Ford and GM need to start playing this game to win versus playing it not to lose. They are playing far too conservatively with tepid or ugly styles, uninspired technology, and too many mental errors in the look/touch/feel of the car.
Unfortunately, Honda and Toyota have fooled people into liking the type of car they want to offer. We need to play the game to change their minds back to wanting OUR type of car versus trying to play their game. You will always lose playing another company's game.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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Originally posted by MadMerc97:
You guys aren't really counting in DC at all are ya'll? First of all, you guys are complaining about the neon dying. The Neon is being replaced by the Caliber, a vehicle with the same engine, similar size, and similar price. Durrr. Jeep is getting the Compass, based on the same platform, and (my favorite) Dodge is getting their own version of the Lancer AND Evo. Also, Stratus and Sebring are being completely redesigned. In addition, the best American sedans on the market are being made at DC at the moment. To top it off, there is a new Challenger coupe in the mix that will be based off of the next-gen LY RWD platform. As I have reiterated time and time again, this decision is based on proven engineering. It is PROVEN that the LX-platform cars sell like hotcakes, so the move to make a mustang-buster coupe on the LY is quite in-line with their policy. Prove me wrong. Oh, and enough with the stupid hybrids already, I'll be laughing in 5 years when all those Prius owners have to buy a prohibitively expensive replacement battery for their little plastic wind-up toy. There would be no need nor want for hybrids if todays cars were lighter and had more efficient engines.
You are correct I've not been keeping up on what isn't out yet in regard to DC, I've not seen much in the monthlies yet. I'm looking at the current market today. Small and midsize sedans are rolling off the lots like crazy right now, today. Will this continue? Certainly will as long as fuel prices remain constant or increase. I'm glad to hear that DC has several mainstream sedan offerings soon to hit the streets. Bob Lutz did wonders for DC before he left and the new management seems to be making good decisions, only time will tell how well DC does moving forward. I'm certainly not counting them out. Even as heavy as the 300C/Magnum/Charger sedans are and how negatively that effects fuel economy, they are still selling well. If DC can add some good subcompact and compact sedans and coupes into the mix, they will be well positioned IMHO to continue to gain market share in these critical areas.
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