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All i have to say is that any person proclaiming he is Christian does not make him Christian.
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John 5 (New King James Version) New King James Version (NKJV) Copyright ?© 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc. John 5 A Man Healed at the Pool of Bethesda 1 After this there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 2 Now there is in Jerusalem by the Sheep Gate a pool, which is called in Hebrew, Bethesda,[a] having five porches. 3 In these lay a great multitude of sick people, blind, lame, paralyzed, waiting for the moving of the water. 4 For an angel went down at a certain time into the pool and stirred up the water; then whoever stepped in first, after the stirring of the water, was made well of whatever disease he had. 5 Now a certain man was there who had an infirmity thirty-eight years. 6 When Jesus saw him lying there, and knew that he already had been in that condition a long time, He said to him, â??Do you want to be made well?â?
7 The sick man answered Him, â??Sir, I have no man to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up; but while I am coming, another steps down before me.â?
8 Jesus said to him, â??Rise, take up your bed and walk.â? 9 And immediately the man was made well, took up his bed, and walked.
And that day was the Sabbath.
Notice that Jesus actually asked this person if "they wanted to be made well". At first glance that seems like the dumbest question af all time. We would assume that everyone in every dire situation wants to be better. The truth is, and Jesus knew this best, is that not everyone wants to be "made well". Think of alcholics or those that smoke. You probably know someone that has no interest in changing.
As far as tithes go I would recomend reading the entire books of Malachi, Deutoronomy, and Leviticus. As far as New Testament, as Christians we are called to be living sacrifices. This goes far beyond money. BTW, God does not "need" our money. Our churches however use it as a tool.
Real work in Christ's name:
http://www.samaritanspurse.org/
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by Rishodi:
Originally posted by Woodencross:
Originally posted by Rishodi:
Originally posted by Woodencross:
I can guess what I said that you have a problem with! 
Well, since you really didn't say ANYTHING, maybe you should tell me what you think I have a problem with!!
Okay, well I could be wrong - but I figured you were shaking your head at my argument against the "once saved, always saved" belief in my post directly above yours. If that's not it though, feel free to tell me what did possess you to make the post with the single emoticon of disapproval.
Uh, where did you say that?
Are you talking about where you posted a bunch of scriptures showing how faith is dead without works?
If you want to talk about "once saved, always saved" then we'll talk. If you want to talk about works being a part of being saved, then we'll talk. Which one are we discussing, or are we discussing both? As for anything else, I don't see where you posted about "once saved, always saved."
Like I said, you didn't really say anything, and other than that, I'm
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About the article.
I just see it as more indication that a paradigm shift may be underway among American Evangelical Christians. For so long christianity and the Bible have been defined along hard line right wing dogma. Brought to us by the Robertson's of the world. Now it seems that many christians have become disenfranchised and are looking to express their faith in a truer biblical and more progressive manner.
*Going back to work*
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by Woodencross:
If you want to talk about works being a part of being saved, then we'll talk.
If I might butt in, I'd like to hear more about what the Bible says about this subject. I've been told that one's actions - good or bad - prior to believing in Jesus' sacrifice are basically not a part of the equation. I have a different view, and am curious to hear your thoughts.
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From my readings of the New Testament, I understand it as follows:
Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ redeems you of your sin and grants you entry to the Kingdom of Heaven. However, there will be a judgement in the end times of your actions here on Earth, and you will answer for your actions. Being a believer, you will not be condemned to hell, but your judgement will have a strong bearing on your role in the Kingdom.
Does that help?
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Sounds clear to me. Thanks. Do all of Christianity's sects include this part of the philosophy?
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Originally posted by Viss1:
Sounds clear to me. Thanks. Do all of Christianity's sects include this part of the philosophy?
Don't ask that...
Read the Bible. That's all that matters...
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I can't speak to all sects, but it's pretty much accepted philosophy in protestant theology. Catholicism tends to skew towards salvation-by-works, yet they call Jesus "Savior", which seems to be an oxymoron to me.
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Originally posted by APT:
All i have to say is that any person proclaiming he is Christian does not make him Christian.
I believe God created the universe in 6 literal days.
I believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God and should be taken quite literally.
Most importantly... I believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God who came to earth, lived a sinless life, delivered God's message, was crucified to take the blame for my sin, and then rose from his tomb 3 days later.
In the short time I have been posting on this forum I think I have made my position on these topics quite clear.
Despite all this, I am not a Christian because I don't think our government should place the poor in a persistent poverty state through welfare programs? I'm sorry but I just don't sympathize with 95% of these types of people.
Interesting... that has not been my understanding of the Christian faith.
Black 2000 SVT Contour w/ Prairie Tan
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