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Originally posted by Rishodi:
That's not the point of the article, and neither is it my opinion. "Christians are stupid" is a stereotype I'm not going to make. My immediate family is Christian and my girlfriend is Christian. The point of the article (the author is a Christian, by the way) is that the majority of Christians in America have deviated from Jesus's teachings, especially those involved politically. I well remember that you are one of the several people who attacked me personally in previous threads, and this post was largely for you. I posted an article because the author expands much further on my viewpoint and more aptly than the extent to which I would be able.
perhaps certain persons dont want to read it because they feel threatened by it. 
at least one person has the cajones to speak up and admit that he has not exactly been living the "Christian life" to the fullest. and to think i thought i was the only one 
kudos to you Big B for your words. instead of trying to argue with other people that they are wrong, you did some self-reflecting of your own. 
Originally posted by Tourgasm:
Sometimes you can mess up a word so bad that spell check doens't know what the hell you're talking about.
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Big B's comments disgust me. As a student of Economics you should understand that just like anything in this world there are a few winners and a whole lot of losers. To see someone homeless and think, "get out and get a job" is selfish and shows an ultimate lack in caring for your fellow man. And then to proclaim you are in fact a christian is a further slap into the face of those who are.
I mean honestly I think if you are a christian then you must have some understanding of the bible, and if you did you wouldn't put capitalism above your god. I'm pretty sure money first isn't the key into heaven. Economics doesn't just crap on the fact that poor people are a drain on society rather economics needs those so called "drains" on society for the theory to make sense...otherwise you have communism.
If you have no compassion for the victims of Katrina/Rita then you aren't human. Your faith should ground you to the point where you understand that things happen that we have no control over...those things can break an individual. As a human i'm obligated to help my fellow man, regardless of religion.
~darp~
Its a sad day when business has become the new religion. Praying to bill gets you nothing
Originally posted by PÃ?â?¢WDÃ?â?°Ã?®CÃ?Ë?Ã?Æ?TMÃ?â?¬N:
I can do anything if i can find that powder .
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Originally posted by darpinian:
Big B's comments disgust me. As a student of Economics you should understand that just like anything in this world there are a few winners and a whole lot of losers. To see someone homeless and think, "get out and get a job" is selfish and shows an ultimate lack in caring for your fellow man. And then to proclaim you are in fact a christian is a further slap into the face of those who are.
Sorry that you are offended (not really). We economists are often very blunt and viewed as somewhat uncaring, though this isn't entirely true (ask me about sweatshops). However, we are almost always right.  As a student of economics, I understand at its very core is the theory of "the pursuit of one's own self-interest", which is often misrepresented as selfishness.
The individuals in question, such as the homeless crack-head holding the sign, are what we economists refer to as "freeloaders". By not pursuing their own self-interest they are not contributing anything to the society as a whole. When you get a job, or produce a good, or perform a service, it is presumed that someone else benefits, thus we are both better off. Only one person benefits from receiving a handout or welfare check (and it could even be debated whether they are really benefitting). Therfore it is terribly inneficient.
Originally posted by darpinian:
I mean honestly I think if you are a christian then you must have some understanding of the bible, and if you did you wouldn't put capitalism above your god. I'm pretty sure money first isn't the key into heaven.
Ummm... sort of the whole point of the article as well as my original (self-reflecting) post. There are clearly conflicts between our capitalist society and the Christian faith. Did you read the article?
Originally posted by darpinian:
Economics doesn't just crap on the fact that poor people are a drain on society rather economics needs those so called "drains" on society for the theory to make sense...otherwise you have communism.
How so? This makes no sense.
Originally posted by darpinian:
If you have no compassion for the victims of Katrina/Rita then you aren't human. Your faith should ground you to the point where you understand that things happen that we have no control over...those things can break an individual. As a human i'm obligated to help my fellow man, regardless of religion.
~darp~
Its a sad day when business has become the new religion. Praying to bill gets you nothing
Don't get me wrong, I have compassion for those individuals who lost their homes, were without food and water, etc. However, I don't have compassion for individuals who spend their entire lives collecting handouts from the government or even Christian charities who are following Biblical teachings (which are VERY heavily abused by the poor). You may be obligated to help your fellow man in a time of need. However, I'm afraid that helping your fellow man when he could perhaps try a little harder at helping himself is doing nothing at all to help him in the long run.
Again, this was the purpose of my post, to partially agree with THE ARTICLE and indicate that many capitalist points don't quite jive with Christian beliefs.
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I'm with darp. Although disgust is taking it a bit too far. Its wrong for anyone to try and heap condemnation on others. But it is ok for your fellow christians to try and help you come to a place of repentance and change. Big B you say you're unashamedly evangelical christian? Have you talked to your pastor about your indifference to the poor? I too appreciate the honesty you have conveyed in your post. You are by no means unique though. And you reinforce what many non christians percieve the evangelical community to be.
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Because anything you post IMO has no values in it, since you yourself do not value anything but yourself. Originally posted by Rishodi:
Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Why post an article? It would be much easier and quicker if you said "Christians are stoopid!"
That's not the point of the article, and neither is it my opinion. "Christians are stupid" is a stereotype I'm not going to make. My immediate family is Christian and my girlfriend is Christian. The point of the article (the author is a Christian, by the way) is that the majority of Christians in America have deviated from Jesus's teachings, especially those involved politically. I well remember that you are one of the several people who attacked me personally in previous threads, and this post was largely for you. I posted an article because the author expands much further on my viewpoint and more aptly than the extent to which I would be able.
Ryan
Trollin!
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I've been told that believing Christ died for our sins is a guaranteed path into Heaven. A little ambivalence towards the less fortunate wouldn't seem to be a huge problem under that philosophy.
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Originally posted by 04marauder:
I'm with darp. Although disgust is taking it a bit too far. Its wrong for anyone to try and heap condemnation on others. But it is ok for your fellow christians to try and help you come to a place of repentance and change. Big B you say you're unashamedly evangelical christian? Have you talked to your pastor about your indifference to the poor? I too appreciate the honesty you have conveyed in your post. You are by no means unique though. And you reinforce what many non christians percieve the evangelical community to be.
Heap condemnation? Wow... what?
No I haven't talk with my pastor about my indifference towards the poor.
I disagree, I think most in the evangelical community are all about helping the poor. I know my church has clothing and food drives every month to distribute to the poor. My mother is the manager of a large warehouse that distributes donated clothing and household items to those individuals who claim to be in need.
Interestingly, my experiences with the poor (probably a lot more than most), such as volunteering at homeless shelters almost weekly for 4 years during highschool, as well as now owning a house in the area of town that I do have also contributed to my disdain for those individuals who have no desire to help themselves.
Just curious, what do you folks propose I do as I walk to the local market (4 blocks away) to buy a gallon of milk and am confronted by no less than 3 or 4 "poor" people asking me for a dollar to "take the bus"? Bring them all home and feed them dinner?
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Originally posted by svt4stv:
perhaps certain persons dont want to read it because they feel threatened by it.
Yep...kind of why some people don't want to read the Bible. 
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Didn't read the article, but I'd like to comment on Big B's comments.
I'm not sure capitalism is anti-Christian. In fact, I'm sure it isn't. I am sure that a lot of socialists want you to think so.
A lack of compassion, as some of B's comments suggest, sounds un-Christian, I will admit.
But giving someone a handout, or feeling sorry for them--does that help them, really?
I think we are called to lift each other up. Throwing a couple of dollars to a "bum" might alleviate my guilt, but does it really address the problem?
"Feeling charitable" is perhaps a selfish motive for giving.
"Without love...etc."
I would agree that there is actually no such thing, anywhere, as a perfect Christian. I think any Christian would agree with that.
That America is capitalist... Well, so a lot of people are addicted to materialism. It's a human failing.
Function before fashion.
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Originally posted by Big_B:
Heap condemnation? Wow... what?
Big B. I don't mean you're condemning. I'm saying people shouldn't try to condemn YOU.
I understand a little more where you're coming from now too. If you talk about having some anger towards people that are genuinely lazy and don't want to really do anything that would help themselves change their state of poverty and only want everything handed to them, that's a whole different story. BUT, for those that have genuine needs I think we are not only called to help. We should want to help.
And it also does seem like you have already done more than most as a volunteer. Good for you.
I still say many people have a perception, right or wrong, of christians as not so loving/giving while at the same time enjoying great affluence.
Now I'll actually read the article.
Last edited by 04marauder; 09/28/05 07:30 PM.
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