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Not trying to stir up any crap, just trying to be the voice of reason. For comparisson sake: This was on an mtx, no tuning (even dirty oil), short adapter cone filter and no cats, stock rear mufflers too. They are the MSDS headers produced exclusively for Draxas ... aka: Duratec Performance. Cost is around $650 IIRC. These new headers are what ... $800-$900 more and make roughly the same HP  
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Originally posted by fastcougar:
Not trying to stir up any crap, just trying to be the voice of reason. For comparisson sake:
This was on an mtx, no tuning (even dirty oil), short adapter cone filter and no cats, stock rear mufflers too.
They are the MSDS headers produced exclusively for Draxas ... aka: Duratec Performance. Cost is around $650 IIRC. These new headers are what ... $800-$900 more and make roughly the same HP
The MSDS gets you nothing more than the headers from what I remember and you still have to cut up your alternator shielding. CP-e supplies an alternator bracket to move it away from the headers, they also supply a y-pipe for that price.
So I can assume the MSDS headers were connected to an optimized y-pipe if cats were removed. Not to forget the SVT cams the MSDS headers took advantage of.
Now compare what you get with MSDS to the CP-e equivalent in price. $650 vs $895.
Driving the Caliber
Side project: The LT-5 Fiero is being born..
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MSDS comes with everything needed for a bolt on installation.
Headers, Y-pipe, mounting hardware, gaskets and MIL eliminators. No messing around with the alternator at all.
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Originally posted by Twisted6:
Originally posted by fastcougar:
Not trying to stir up any crap, just trying to be the voice of reason. For comparisson sake:
This was on an mtx, no tuning (even dirty oil), short adapter cone filter and no cats, stock rear mufflers too.
They are the MSDS headers produced exclusively for Draxas ... aka: Duratec Performance. Cost is around $650 IIRC. These new headers are what ... $800-$900 more and make roughly the same HP
The MSDS gets you nothing more than the headers from what I remember and you still have to cut up your alternator shielding. CP-e supplies an alternator bracket to move it away from the headers, they also supply a y-pipe for that price.
So I can assume the MSDS headers were connected to an optimized y-pipe if cats were removed. Not to forget the SVT cams the MSDS headers took advantage of.
Now compare what you get with MSDS to the CP-e equivalent in price. $650 vs $895.
Yep, you definitely assumed wrong. www.msdsinc.com lists their Mazda 6 3L shorty header set at $675.00. My email from Marty shows the same graph that fastcougar posted. And Marty quotes "Only items used were our off the shelf(shorty) header system, no cats, stock rear exhaust, NO tuning and 87 octane."
Mark
2000 Black CSVT
3.0L Hybrid - 206fwhp & 195fwtq
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I stand corrected, but still stand by my convictions that your comparing two different engines and not condemn a product before it is even tested on a similar engine as those MSDS dynos are from.
All I know is, more than 18 people plopped down that $1700 for the CP-e headers and that is 15-16 more than the MSDS headers which have available for two years IIRC. Production starts next week on the Mazda6 batch, hopefully it won't effect them working with 69Boss302.
Driving the Caliber
Side project: The LT-5 Fiero is being born..
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Holy crap. $1700 headers better give at least 50 wheel HP/TQ throughout the entire powerband. Plus install themselves. 
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Holy crap. $1700 headers better give at least 50 wheel HP/TQ throughout the entire powerband. Plus install themselves.
Considering you don't have to hack up other components to make them fit closely classifies itself as install itself.
As for power gain and the powerband, with proper tuning, yes.
Driving the Caliber
Side project: The LT-5 Fiero is being born..
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Originally posted by Twisted6:
I stand corrected, but still stand by my convictions that your comparing two different engines
When in this discussion did we move from Mazda6 3L's to another engine with SVT cams??? The MSDS dyno is from a bone stock Mazda 6 with the MSDS Header/y-pipe combo, and THAT'S IT! No SVT cams were used. So once again, $675 for the MSDS header AND y-pipe set that comes with EVERYTHING needed to bolt it on and proved to make 199fwhp. How much is the CP-E kit again? I see $1700, then I see $895?
Mark
2000 Black CSVT
3.0L Hybrid - 206fwhp & 195fwtq
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Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
When in this discussion did we move from Mazda6 3L's to another engine with SVT cams??? The MSDS dyno is from a bone stock Mazda 6 with the MSDS Header/y-pipe combo, and THAT'S IT! No SVT cams were used. So once again, $675 for the MSDS header AND y-pipe set that comes with EVERYTHING needed to bolt it on and proved to make 199fwhp. How much is the CP-E kit again? I see $1700, then I see $895?
Mark
During my header topics it has always been Contour gain vs Mazda6 gain on the product I was offering. If I had known that was a Mazda6 that FC posted, then I would of corrected him with the dynos of the two Mazda6 MSDS header owners. Here is Kit's (z6speed) who later turned his into a twin turbo monster, the first three runs were done in 3rd gear like the dyno above and 46-degrees outside, the final pull that got the most power was done in 4th gear. His only was an Injen CAI:
http://forum.mazda6tech.com/viewtopic.php?t=349
Davecoyne, another 6S owner, also installed them and saw only a 10WHP gain on a Mustang dyno, his only mod was also an Injen CAI: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/326543/7
Here is the actual MSDS' dyno of the Mazda6, from their website:
So again I begin to wonder where that dyno of FC's is from...
Driving the Caliber
Side project: The LT-5 Fiero is being born..
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Holy skewed post Batman! Kind of ironic that in the thread you linked, the 2nd post talks about a Contour with a 3L swap only putting down 175fwhp! Talk about some LOW numbers! I can't recall ANY 3L Contours below 180fwhp, and even then, those are the guys with just the 3L block, stock airbox and exhaust! It's no surprise that the Mazda6 would dyno low! Hell, even the Jackson Racing supercharged Mazda Miata that only put down 142whp!! This should be a sign that the dyno was giving low numbers! 
BTW, the dyno graph you posted is on an ATX Mazda6. The graph posted by fastcougar was the same graph that Marty emailed to me of an MTX Mazda6.
Mark
2000 Black CSVT
3.0L Hybrid - 206fwhp & 195fwtq
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